As if I care.

bump

couldn't answer on that feed so i will answer here

the federal government did declare war on the mormans before the civil war

and they lost becouse of an early winter storm

the federal troops where not prepared for it

and the mormans actually had to come to their aid

sent them blankets and food

under the peace terms the federal government got to put a base near salt lake, that area is now part of the univeristy of utah

but to get there the troops had to march through salt lake city under orders not to stop for anything or for any reason

the mormans had evacuated to provo leaving one man with a torch in each building with orders to burn the city down if the troops did not follow the above orders

that base recently became the olympic village

now sean or col will tell me i don't know what i am talking about

this is from http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/bridgera.html


The Mormon War, sometime known as the "Utah War" or "Buchanan's Blunder," arose out of the loss of the postal contract by Brigham Young's express company and President Buchanan's concern that Brigham Young was intent on making Deseret, as Utah was then known, an independent state. Notwithstanding warnings from former Texas President Sam Houston that if a military force were sent to Salt Lake City that all the Army would find would be a "heap of ashes," President Buchanan determined to remove Young as territorial governor and replace him with a non-Mormon. Young, on the other hand, determined that no hostile forces were to enter the territory, and, indeed, demanded that federal forces surrender their arms and ammunitions. President Buchanan in an address to Congress noted:

now it has been argued as well that the mormans lost this war becouse the troops where allowed to build that base

Haha. You can still reply there. Just not from the old forums. Apparently BL works there.

um, danny boy, did you read any further than that first paragraph? It also says this:

A Territorial government was established for Utah by act of Congress approved the 9th September, 1850, and the Constitution and laws of the United States were thereby extended over it "so far as the same or any provisions thereof may be applicable." This act provided for the appointment by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, of a governor (who was to be ex officio superintendent of Indian affairs), a secretary, three judges of the supreme court, a marshal, and a district attorney. Subsequent acts provided for the appointment of the officers necessary to extend our land and our Indian system over the Territory. Brigham Young was appointed the first governor on the 20th September, 1850, and has held the office ever since. Whilst Governor Young has been both governor and superintendent of Indian affairs throughout this period, he has been at the same time the head of the church called the Latter-day Saints, and professes to govern its members and dispose of their property by direct inspiration and authority from the Almighty. His power has been, therefore, absolute over both church and state.

Basically what the federal government was trying to do was reclaim its terratory from a 'governor' who thought he was more powerful than the president who appointed him. I don't see anywhere on this web page that the intent was to exterminate the mormons, but rather to regain control. Did I miss something some where else?

the intent was to disperse the mormans across the rest of the country so that they would not have the ability to control any state or territory of the country

and it was still a declared war and the federal troops lost the fight although no one was actually shot on either side

and the only real action in it was when the mormans burnt the supply train heading for the troops

that was before the storm hit after the storm hit and the troops had no food or warm clothing

the mormans gathered as much food and as many blankets as they could and took them to the troops

pretty nice considering that the troops where ordered to kill any resistance

and utah was a territory becouse brigham young wanted it that way to start with

also during this time in southern utah outside of ceder city there was a wagon train that was destroyed by members of the church mostly out of stupidity but also out of fear

a messenger arrived a day after the massicure from brigham young to leave the wagon train alone



to regain control of a territory that wasn't out of control


you have to remember that only like 10 years or less seperated this action against the mormans and the riot in navou where joseph smith was killed by a mob

and he was the leader of the church before he was appointed gov.

one more thing this was a declared war by congress

Yep, but he was still responsible to follow the laws of the federal government, and thus the president who appointed him. The only reason that him being a church leader was important was because he used it to influence the people of the territory to try to usurp the power of the federal government.

No matter how how you cut it this was not a religious war. Congress did not send in troops just to go exterminate the mormons. Even your own reference doesn't say this.

What'd I miss, what'd I miss?

actually i never said that they were trying to exterminate the mormans

i was merely pointing out that sean was wrong about there being a war against the mormans

and if the president needs to send in troops to put down a rebillion he doesn't have to have a declared war

I'd really appreciate it if you would go and read the ENTIRE article that you referenced. You still don't get it. It was not about the mormons it was about rebellion!

"it is sufficient to say that all the officers of the United States, judicial and executive, with the single exception of two Indian agents, have found it necessary for their own personal safety to withdraw from the Territory, and there no longer remains any government in Utah but the despotism of Brigham Young. This being the condition of affairs in the Territory, I could not mistake the path of duty. As Chief Executive Magistrate I was bound to restore the supremacy of the Constitution and laws within its limits. In order to effect this purpose, I appointed a new governor and other Federal officers for Utah and sent with them a military force for their protection and to aid as a posse comitatuts in case of need in the execution of the laws. With the religious opinions of the Mormons, as long as they remained mere opinions, however deplorable in themselves and revolting to the moral and religious sentiments of all Christendom, I had no right to interfere. Actions alone, when in violation of the Constitution and laws of the- United States, become the legitimate subjects for the jurisdiction of the civil magistrate. My instructions to Governor Cumining have therefore been framed in strict accordance with these principles. At their date a hope was indulged that no necessity might exist for employing the military in restoring and maintaining the authority of the law, but this hope has now vanished. Governor Young has by proclamation declared his determination to maintain his power by force, and has already committed acts of hostility against the United States. Unless he should retrace his steps the Territory of Utah will be in a state of open rebellion.

It was about rebellion not religious belief! I'm done with this if you refuse to even read your own source material. Good Bye!

yea the feds were calling him a despot and he was calling the feds despots tr5yihg to go in and kill the religeon

here is the whole story

http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Mormons/00000080.htm

utah wasnot in a state of rebillion and the government instead of going through channels listenned to a group of anti mormans and sent in the troops to protect the new governor which the church took as an assuilt on liberities akin to other attacks the last one being in missiouri

What'd I miss, what'd I miss?

I'm just catching up Terp.  It seems like a good one brewing though!

At the starters whistle...

I take back what I said/thinking. The link that San Chorizo posted on the other thread only lead to the one about Missouri. I had never seen the federal side.

Haha. You can still reply there. Just not from the old forums. Apparently BL works there.

No Brandie, the B/L works on both sides. I don't won't use the new side. I don't like the layout and it can be very confusing. I only ever use the old side of JU. But you are always welcome here. As far as I'm concerned SConn1 can go pound sand.

So, did you do what I asked? Did you read your own source??? Throwing up a new link to try and support your rubbish isn't helping you any at all.

But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and read the new 'stuff':

first line:
"When Major Van Vliet returned from Utah to Washington with Young's defiant ultimatum"

"Asked by his host, when the head of the church took his leave, if Young appeared to be a tyrant, Governor Cumming replied: "No, sir. No tyrant ever had a head on his shoulders like Mr. Young. He is naturally a good man. I doubt whether many of your people sufficiently appreciate him as a leader."* This was the judgment of a federal officer after a few moments' conversation with the reviler of the government and a month's coaching by Colonel Kane."

Your article also states:

Governor Cumming, in his report to Secretary Cass on the situation as he found it when he entered Salt Lake City, said that, learning that a number of persons desirous of leaving the territory "considered themselves to be unlawfully restrained of their liberty," he decided, even at the risk of offending the Mormons, to give public notice of his readiness to assist such persons. In consequence, 56 men, 38 women, and 71 children sought his protection in order to proceed to the States. "The large majority of these people;" he explained, "are of English birth, and state that they leave the congregation from a desire to improve their circumstances and realize elsewhere more money for their labor."

and:

"When Governor Cumming was introduced to the congregation of nearly four thousand people he made a very conciliatory address, in which, however, according to his report to Secretary Cass,* he let them know that he had come to vindicate the national sovereignty, "and to exact an unconditional submission on their part to the dictates of the law"; but informed them that they were entitled to trial by their peers,--intending to mean Mormon peers,--that he had no intention of stationing the army near their settlements, or of using a military posse until other means of arrest had failed."

and:

"In his report to Secretary Cass, dated May 2, Governor Cumming, after describing this exodus as a matter of great concern, said:--

I shall follow these people and try to rally them. Our military force could overwhelm most of these poor people, involving men, women, and children in a common fate; but there are among the Mormons many brave men accustomed to arms and horses, men who could fight desperately as guerillas; and, if the settlements are destroyed, will subject the country to an expensive and protracted war, without any compensating results. They will, I am sure, submit to 'trial by their peers,' but they will not brook the idea of trial by 'juries' composed of 'teamsters and followers of the camp,' nor any army encamped in their cities or dense settlements."

Hardly the words of a man trying to persecute the Mormons!

and:

"Governor Cumming's report of May 2 did not reach Washington until June 9, but the President's volte-face had begun before that date, and when the situation in Utah was precisely as it was when he had assured Colonel Kane that he would send no agent to the Mormons while they continued their defiant attitude. Under date of April 6 he issued a proclamation, in which he recited the outrages on the federal officers in Utah, the warlike attitude and acts of the Mormon force, which, he pointed out, constituted rebellion and treason; declared that it was a grave mistake to suppose that the government would fail to bring them into submission; stated that the land occupied by the Mormons belonged to the United States; and disavowed any intention to interfere with their religion; and then, to save bloodshed and avoid indiscriminate punishment where all were not equally guilty, he offered "a free and full pardon to all who will submit themselves to the just authority of the federal government."

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? you've only digging yourself a bigger hole by adding another link. Neither of them support your claim!

OK, now I am officially done with danny boy. Sorry for the hijack drmiler.

how come you only posted the anti morman stuff and non of the other part

the president sent in troops to put done a rebullion that didn't exist

becouse a few non mormans appointed men had tried to rip the members off and becouse the mormans were practicing plural marriage at the time

now i can do what you did and pick my paragraphs but you need to read the whole thing to know what really happened to hit and miss

and if brigham young was that big of a tyrant do you really think that he would not have fought to keep his power

come you people use your own brains for once

after the president sent in an attack force and the morman forces went out of their way not to kill anyone involved with the federal government

hi docm, long time no type..

hope all is well in doc m land.

MM

Don't forget Vegetable!

Mmmmm . . . Chorizo . . . gotta love the stuff.

You dont? tsk, tsk!

San Chorizo Mmmmm . . . Chorizo . . . gotta love the stuff.

Sorry about that name mess up.

No worries . . . Chorizo is good for you, just don't think of what it is . . .