Do Extracurricular Sports Belong in School?

from JoeUser Forums

Someone posted the question to another forum I frequent about whether or not homeschoolers should be allowed to participate on public school sports teams. In my mind, they are asking the wrong question. The question they SHOULD be asking is whether extracurricular sports belong in public schools at all.

There is a school of thought that holds that a healthy body and a healthy mind are inextricably linked. And I cannot argue that, as indeed, it seems that many of the chemicals that aid learning are present in greater quantities with regular exercise and healthy eating. But it is possible to maintain a healthy body without crushing 250 pound adolescents together in heavy padding on a field for the surrogate glory of the parents and the voyeuristic glory of the alumni and nonathletic among us. When a school has a strong athletic program, it quickly becomes a "farm team" for higher level sports, and eventually the pros, and academics fall by the wayside. In addition, it quickly creates a more pronounced caste system; everyone in school can name the QB who led the team to regionals; nobody can name the math whiz who won the state Academic Bowl.

I don't begrudge a student their desire to smach opponents to pieces, I just don't see it as an integral component of education. It is my position that our education dollars are poorly spent, giving us poor return for our money as we reward poor teachers too often as equally as we reward great teachers. If students want to play sports, there are many community civic clubs who can and do sponsor such endeavours. But when they walk in that school door, they walk in to learn things OTHER than the mechanics of a good swing, and schools should not be spending money maintaining athletic departments solely for the ego of the community.

5,041 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm all for it. Get rid of it all. Save all the money wasted on all those coaches and maintaining all those gyms, baseball diamonds, football fields and stands and use it to teach the kids practical stuff and math and science et. al. that will get them a JOB. Now as for kid league baseball? I'm all for it as it is usually done by outside organizations like the Lions Club, etc. and is done seperate from school. heh, you can even pray at the things before a game if you wanna!

I'm just tired of paying for all the sports stuff on my dime in the public schools (and I say that as a former HS football player and track runner too)
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes. I am also seeing many school districts cut art and music from their budgets because they are "unnecessary" while leaving the football program intact.

Nice. Let's cut a program that's available to 100% of the students in favor of one that might be available to 5% in a medium sized metropolitan school.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
The school my kids go to doesn't have sports. In fact, my boys only have PE once or twice a month.

I don't mind teaching them about health and exercise, so it doesn't really bother me. They also get exposure to team sports through Cub Scouts.

We haven't started sports yet, but there are quite a few hoops to jump through to do the sports offered by the military. When Adrian gets home we may have the boys do soccer. I think it would be fun and be good for them.

I don't know if I can answer your original question, though since I am very biased. I hated sports in school and was left out a lot because I wasn't athletic.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

I think it goes beyond physical fitness - it goes to school spirit.  And that kind of stuff.  Instead of having gangs from schools eat each other up - let them do it under controlled circumstances.

I like school sports, but I cant say I agree they should be there.  Guess I have never thought long and hard on it before.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gid Gid Gid, you might live in Texas, but you obviously aren't a native.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gid Gid Gid, you might live in Texas, but you obviously aren't a native.


LOL, SC...It's blasphemy EVERYWHERE I lived...but my position's not changing.

I'm sick and damn tired of "sorry, Jimmy. You can't be in drama next year because we had to slash the budget. Come by my office and we'll discuss it right after the pep rally to show off the cheerleaders' new uniforms!"

It's all BS if you ask me!
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm sick and damn tired of "sorry, Jimmy. You can't be in drama next year because we had to slash the budget. Come by my office and we'll discuss it right after the pep rally to show off the cheerleaders' new uniforms!"


Hey, that's why the Newspaper staff had to use butt-old Apple P'sOS . . . can't stop those cheerleaders!




PS I love the name Jimmy. It just makes me want to say, "So yes, Jimmy-jimmy, there have been parades honoring the Cheat, but don't let that from holding your own! He can be the grand marshall! He is also available for prom dates and pizza parties."
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

I wouldn't cut out sports in schools, but I'd still like to see more teeth in pass-to-play policies, and I'd like to see schools pay for sports through extracurricular funding and not through taxes.

Taxes should, by all means, be used to help educate in the arts, music, and other areas.  Areas that don't get the type of attention and support that they should from school boards.

With all of this said though, I'd hazzard a guess that there are plenty of areas near Gid where the sports are pretty much pay-as-you-go thanks to local boosters, and others that help cover the costs.  If that is happening, then it goes back to 'nothing to see here, please move along....'

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I wouldn't cut out sports in schools,


Okay. I'd support a Chess team I suppose. Seriously. I think Chess teaches a lot.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
With all of this said though, I'd hazzard a guess that there are plenty of areas near Gid where the sports are pretty much pay-as-you-go thanks to local boosters, and others that help cover the costs. If that is happening, then it goes back to 'nothing to see here, please move along....'


With insurance costs, travel costs, meal costs (athletes get 'em, kids travelling on academic events do not...nice inequity there), costs of field maintenance, I find it unlikely that ANY HS sports program in this country is "self sufficient". They ALWAYS come with a cost.

So there IS something to see here!
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am for sport in schools.

It benefits children:

Comradeship – good fellowship
Teamanship – this encompasses sharing, loyalty, enthusiasm
Strategize
React
Be competitive (the working world is a very competitive place to live in as an adult)
Boundaries - Learning to get along – about the rules, following them, obeying them, living by them, using them etc.
Discipline and orderliness

The list is probably longer?

Local business could sponsor sports to reduce the burden on the schools, thereby increasing the budgets for other departments.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

While I don't have anything against performing sports leagues in school....... I think the money would be better spent teaching a more lowest-common-denominator physical education.  I think that the whold focus of PE becomes the sports program.....people who do not participate in sports are usually allowed to "skate by" doing minimal phsyical activity, which they shy away from anyway for not being as athletic as another. 

It would be a better idea to teach about the body....proper stretching, core strengthening, good eating habits (and HOW that directly affects your body).   From there it would be up to each individual what they do with their knowledge.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gid, I have a whole different take on the sports.

I think sports are important because it gives the kids who are physically talented but not academically so a venue to excel. I'm all for providing different sorts of activities for students with different sorts of talents.

Having said that, I'm from Canada and sports has a whole different set of priorities then it does in Texas. The school I taught at put academics first. Students were not allowed to partipate in team sports if they skipped or weren't passing. Facilities are okay, but no dedicated stadiums. Some games are in school fields or sometimes facilities ran by the city.

Not many people watch who aren't friends or family of the players (but I was in a city not the countryside so that could be different).

Girls would rather die than become a cheerleader.

I have a few things I would like to see changed about highschool sports, but I think it mostly about the priority adults put on it rather than the students themselves.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Poison, Jeremy, what you are describing could easily be encompassed in a physical education program (which we arguably already have) that benefits ALL children, not a select few.

Do you know how much is spent on football fields, tracks, equipment, uniforms, etc, to compete? The school in our community of 500 recently spent $100,000 (or were going to...not sure if they got ALL the money) on the local track. That and the incredible cost of insurance, especially in high injury sports such as football, and I believe it is a business the schools should not be involved in. There is nothing about extracurricular sports that could not be undertaken by civic groups.

When teachers claim their pay isn't high enough despite the fact that we spend $10,000/year per student (sorry, folks...infrastructure cost COUNTS), there's something wrong. When schools are cutting classes like art, music, and drama, it clearly shows our priorities are in the wrong place. A student learns FAR more in drama classes than they would EVER learn on the football field, and the lessons are longer lasting. Not that there aren't lessons to be learned on the football field, mind you, but they are lessons learned by a small percentage of the student population.

Momijiki,

I was hoping you would weigh in. What is the school sports situation in Japan? Do they place the same emphasis on competitive sports, or do they engage in more lifelong physical pursuits? I am interested in hearing how the nations compare.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
You know that I am Canadian, right?

Still, been here in Japan for about 10 years.

The sports situation is really different. Some schools really emphasize sports more than academics, vice versa and some promote balance.

I talked to my husband about this. He's Japanese. He says that sports aren't glorified the way they are in some states in the US.

Still, there is a major exception to that--Koshien. It is the national high school baseball tournament. The summer tournament is a straight up nation-wide tournament. I have to admit, Koshien is amazing. At the end of a schools appearance in Koshien, the players scoop up a little bit of dirt to take home with them. Soccer also has a straight up national tournament as well. It just doesn't have the mythological importance that Koshien has. To be honest, I think the US has nothing like Koshien.

Overall, sports here emphasizes teamwork over one athlete's stardom. There can be a lot of talk about "Yamato damashi" Japanese spirit and sacrifice. In many cases, I think that this is to the detriment of a lot of sports at a higher level. I think that Japanese athletes in team sports tend to not be aggressive enough or, rather, personally assertive.

I think the university sports competition is not as strong as in the states. It certainly doesn't gain the same kind of attention.

I feel like I'm not really being effective at answering this question. Since the private school system is just as prevalent as public and the funding that schools raise for sports can vary so widely it becomes hard to generalize.

I saw that movie "Friday Night Lights." If it helps, there isn't that kind of pressure on athletes that I'm aware of. The national attention on Koshien is truly national. It's a straight up tournament of 4000 plus high schools in Japan. Many consider this tournament the epitome or the true essence of high school sports.

Now having said about Koshien (I'm in awe of it as well and I'm not a baseball fan) I also hear a lot of stories about some pretty freaky PE teachers. I think the PE system here can be kind of archaic. I don't have a lot of experience with PE classes here. I get the impression they are rather torturous but I can't tell you why I have that impression.

I guess it will be easier if you ask me specific questions and I try to answer them or find out about them.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
You know that I am Canadian, right?


All I knew for sure was that you currently live in Japan. I'm interested in the Japanese perspective because that's the educational model our legislators drool over and try to emulate. So it's helpful to understand some of the cultural differences.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I saw that movie "Friday Night Lights."


That is actually not indicative of the US either. But it is in Texas (where Gid lives) as HS Football is not just a pastime, but an obsession.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
But it is in Texas (where Gid lives) as HS Football is not just a pastime, but an obsession

it is there. as it is back in my hometown of pittsburgh (i'll reference tom cruise's "all the right moves" as a movie example, lol). i had cousins who were high school americans in texas. when the 1st looked at colleges, by the time he was done, he was a walking "recruiting violation." someone else took his SAT(because he never learned squat in HS and was just passed on because of his talents), he got a brand new truck from the alumni association and his girlfriend got a 4 year "band scholarship" and she really didn't play much of anything.

in my high school, during the same period (1980's) they hired a coach out of ohio when i was there (named mark mccann) who had a huge reputation as a "winner." the 1st thing he did was recruit a kid named tim manoa (sp?) who was a somoan kid with some really loose family ties in the district. he talked the kid into moving to the district and the coach and tim led the team to the WPIAL championships. tim eventually went to penn state and the cleveland browns. no one ever even cared because all the district wanted was a football winner. we were a quad A school that could kick ass in virtually every other area, but our football team used to get pummelled by all the rivaling neighbor districts.

but despite that, and other overdoses of school athletic excess, i wouldn't even consider "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" here. school sports have gotten big, and not just football like it is in western pa or texas. i'm sure many an inner city basketball programs excesses have caused forced sacrifice for others who did not play or go to games.

school sports used to be a "motivator" for the student who maybe wasn't the next einstein or rhodes scholar. it gave hope to people who could of otherwise never attended a college. but over the years, it has become an unintended monster, and a reflection of the money power of both professional and collegiate sports, which in their own right, have gotten out of hand. of course , the professionals are more subject to "free market" rules than they are the moral questions that high schools and colleges must ask and answer.

i think some school sports, esp. those out of the limelight of national television and big time covreage, still serve that purpose along with the other benefits that sports can provide. but when the sport gets too big for it's britches and students are "passed on" and given credit for work never done in the classroom, it's time to re-evaluate.

unfortunately, sometimes you can't put the genie back in the bottle. but actions like the NBA took this year, when they made it so students couldn't jump directly from high school to the NBA is at least a step in the right direction. but many more steps need to be taken in other areas and other levels and the situation that gid speaks of does need to be reigned in. eliminate sports? no. get the situation back under control to ensure education comes 1st in high school? certainly.