Spartan's Impressions

so far...

I just finished my first game with the beta. I think this title has a lot of possibilities and I hope they will be fully realized.

For my first game I played a 1v1 on a medium map with medium resources. The game lasted over 5.5 hours. This was mainly because I was taking my time and exploring things. I could have soundly defeated the AI by the two hour mark.

Some things that bothered me with the game at present are:

1. The travel lanes. The system needs to be reworked. I utterly wasted the AI using a line of G-guns and hangers.

2. The lateral plane should be broken when viewing the galaxy. It looks like a 2D game and that is sad because it is so damn pretty. This is not a real issue but adds to that extra polish that will make the game a classic.

3. The ability to scrap items. If it is in the game I have not found it.

4. Ability to set some sort of tax and trade rates with appripriate tech and adverse affects -etc...

5. The voice sounds are way to low. I can barely hear them and I have them at max.

6. The maintenance level seems to be locked at the 75% level.

7. The ability to control ships one at a time in combat easily is sorely needed.

8. Some priority target function is also really needed. The "auto shoot planet" thing makes simultaneous attacks a very dangerous thing to try.

9. The AI auto placement ability real needs to be redone because it simply does not work with a degree of logic that I can see.

10. I would to be able to name ships and fleets.

Again these are just what I can think of off the top of my head right now. This is by no means a comprehensive list nor is it a bitch list. Just some things that stand out for me after one game. I'll update this list more as I get more experience.


UPDATE

I have had a couple hours with the new version and I have the following thoughts and comments. They are in no particular order.

1. What is the benefit of heavy fighters?

2. Are Orbital refineries for meteorite systems just as trade stations are for normal planets or should they be placed in both types of systems?

3. I got a crash on load when I tried to zoom out at the exact time the startup sound effect started. It only happened once.

4. For my last game the AI players refused to expand to planets on the other side of the home star system. For example: AI---AI---HS---P---P---Me
^AI-----AI^.......^---P---^

5. The "defend local area" seems to not work anymore. I set ships to it yet they target enemy ships on the other side of the planet and try to go to them.

6. Regarding my saved game minidump that I UL to my domain (see other thread) the saved game starts me at the exact place I saved it yet all my other saves have started me at my most developed system. Why is this so? Should I not start at my home world regardless of its development level?

7. My biggest peeve is the auto target to mines!!! I lost two level 10 and 3 level5 battleships to scouts!!!! It is near impossible to control more then one battle if you care about ship loss ratio. The situation was this... I had wasted the home world and sent my fleet back to my other real hot front and left one level 10 battleship there to mop up by wasting the factory and the mines - easy yes? I come back 5 minutes later and my ship is gone and I see about 5 enemy scouts!!! So I sent in another one (my flagship) then went back to my other battle. Well same thing happened!!!! This time seven scouts were there.

I was PO big time so I sent 3 battleships and I KNEW they would do the job. Guess what??? TOAST!!! They ALL kept shooting at the damn mines while the then 10 scouts scouts cut them down. I was so angry I slammed my keyboard and it cost well over $150!!! That has to change or it is a deal breaker. We must have a priority target system that the player can select.

8. I would also like to see firepower consolidation for multiple attackers (a swarm effect if you will) especially for attacks on capital ships when more then one is involved and when being attacked an auto selection of the closest ship to you with a priority on the one that is actively shooting at you if there are more then one close by. Far too many times I have seen ships shooting at a target way in the distance with a low hit ratio while some enemy ships were up close and personal on its ass plowing it and it simply could not careless. The humanity of it all!!

9. It is not a real issue but something that bothers me. I dont like all the stars and planets for that matter being on the same plane. The same applies to ships although I can move the ship to different elevations (always by accident at this point).

10. As I said before lanes bother me as well. My defense system is basically a slam dunk with the current AI. If there has to be lanes then have them between the stars only and free space between all the planets.

11. A suggestion, i would love to be able to track battle stats by planet and star systems. I know its an egghead suggestion but if you going to give the player stats then make them highly detailed I say.

12. I would like to have medals to award to ships with special bonuses. They could be based on a level of tonnage per engagement taking into account the specific planet and or star system and number of battles fought there as well as players -etc... Something like the system used in Silent Hunter but ship based would be nice.

13. The scale of ships next to the stars looks good but next to the planets they simply look wrong. I would consider making the planets bigger and adding some moons. While I'm on the topic of size the objects also seem rather large for the planets as well.

14. The gravity wells (GW) seem a little to small when one has a fully developed system. While I'm on the topic the placeable objects seem a little to big as well. Maybe it is them coupled with the ships that makes the planets look dwarfed.

15. The capital ship explosions are truly something special to behold. I would like to see them cause damage to other ships within the explosion area just to really make it meaningful.

16. An auto retreat option that can be set by the player would really be nice especially when one has dozens of high level ships in combat and cant look at all of them at one time.

17. An auto level advance option would also rock. For example when I build a capital ship I can select all the advancement options I want up to the max level and when it reaches that experience level it enables that selection.

18. An easy way to use the elevation ability. I simply cant figure out how to do it at the moment. When I do manage to do get ships to climb higher then the others it is always in a pitched fight and I dont know what keys I am hitting (large fingers) and I would like the ships to enter a system already on different levels. This would also go a long way in reducing the crowded feel when one gets a couple dozen ship together all at the same elevation. I cant count the number of times I have seen ships hit each other moving becasue they are all on the same plain.
4,710 views 21 replies
Reply #1 Top
3. The ability to scrap items. If it is in the game I have not found it.


It's the small striped button a the bottom center of the UI--the hotkey is H.

6. The maintenance level seems to be locked at the 75% level.


There's a cap at 75%, but it can be quite easy to reach.

7. The ability to control ships one at a time in combat easily is sorely needed.


What exactly do you find difficult about doing so?
Reply #2 Top
Thanks for the info.

Regarding your question, sometimes when I click on a ship all the ships of that class are selected. I dont know the entire control set yet but I could swear the only buttons I used were the "crtl and shift" plus the numbers throughout the game (this is real good in opinion)other then my mouse for movement ans selection.

I have tried the group setup and it seems to work well.

I have now spent about 12 hours on the demo and I find I get random crashes after a couple hours. I'm not sure what causes it however. My OS is also Vista 64 so there may be some kernel issues or other such things in play that I dont know about yet due to the OS being so new and my time with it is also rather limited.


I think I have basically created a full proof tactical placement plan as well against the AI. It simply cant counter my gun and hanger wall centered on the lane entry points. I make something like this:

G___G___G
__G___G__
H___H___H

The center is lined up with the point of entry. It is like a turkey shoot. The AI simply tries to go for the planet and it never consolidates fire nor does it use interlocking fields of fire. The placement is at the outer most area. The hangers balanced with half fighters and bombers. In my last battle the AI sent in something like 100 ships with about 10% capital and it only took out one gun.

For all my games so far I keep a small fleet of about 10 capital ships and 20 escorts. I try to get each capital to level 9 or 10 and I'm pretty much rolling thunder on the AI systems.
Reply #3 Top

10. I would to be able to name ships and fleets.


This has already been implemented but is currently disabled in Beta 1. (The mystery orange button avove the portrait window)

Reply #4 Top
The targeting priority is wonky for the A.I.I have invaded systems and my fleet auto attacks planets,building and not the enemy fleet.

The A.I should attack in this order
1.Fleet
2.Gun batteries
3.Planet stuff
Reply #5 Top
Some causes of this problem are fixed in the new patch (.10 released a couple minutes ago), the rest will be later. Its a known issue we are trying to track down
Reply #6 Top

It's the small striped button a the bottom center of the UI--the hotkey is H.

Ahh, had been looking for that. Thanks


Reply #7 Top
6. The maintenance level seems to be locked at the 75% level.


There's a cap at 75%, but it can be quite easy to reach.


I reach 75% with just 5 planets and a small fleet, lol....
Reply #8 Top
@Craig - great news. Sorry if it is common knowledge as I have not had time to read all the posts in the forums yet.

Cool! A new patch. Downloading shortly.

@Ash - I would refine that list more and divide each category into priority targets and prevailing targets for each.

@BDU - LOL - me too my friend, me too.

@lord - My last game before the crash I owned 30% of the planets and had a fleet of 20 ships and my level was a mere 25%. My play style is super high quality ships over the spammer blitz. It is good to have level 10 ships. Sadly I have not been able to reach 11 due to game crashes. I wonder if that is the reason it crashes....
Reply #9 Top
UPDATE

I have had a couple hours with the new version and I have the following thoughts and comments. They are in no particular order.

1. What is the benefit of heavy fighters?

2. Are Orbital refineries for meteorite systems just as trade stations are for normal planets or should they be placed in both types of systems?

3. I got a crash on load when I tried to zoom out at the exact time the startup sound effect started. It only happened once.

4. For my last game the AI players refused to expand to planets on the other side of the home star system. For example: AI---AI---HS---P---P---Me
^AI-----AI^.......^---P---^

5. The "defend local area" seems to not work anymore. I set ships to it yet they target enemy ships on the other side of the planet and try to go to them.

6. Regarding my saved game minidump that I UL to my domain (see other thread) the saved game starts me at the exact place I saved it yet all my other saves have started me at my most developed system. Why is this so? Should I not start at my home world regardless of its development level?

7. My biggest peeve is the auto target to mines!!! I lost two level 10 and 3 level5 battleships to scouts!!!! It is near impossible to control more then one battle if you care about ship loss ratio. The situation was this... I had wasted the home world and sent my fleet back to my other real hot front and left one level 10 battleship there to mop up by wasting the factory and the mines - easy yes? I come back 5 minutes later and my ship is gone and I see about 5 enemy scouts!!! So I sent in another one (my flagship) then went back to my other battle. Well same thing happened!!!! This time seven scouts were there.

I was PO big time so I sent 3 battleships and I KNEW they would do the job. Guess what??? TOAST!!! They ALL kept shooting at the damn mines while the then 10 scouts scouts cut them down. I was so angry I slammed my keyboard and it cost well over $150!!! That has to change or it is a deal breaker. We must have a priority target system that the player can select.

8. I would also like to see firepower consolidation for multiple attackers (a swarm effect if you will) especially for attacks on capital ships when more then one is involved and when being attacked an auto selection of the closest ship to you with a priority on the one that is actively shooting at you if there are more then one close by. Far too many times I have seen ships shooting at a target way in the distance with a low hit ratio while some enemy ships were up close and personal on its ass plowing it and it simply could not careless. The humanity of it all!!

9. It is not a real issue but something that bothers me. I dont like all the stars and planets for that matter being on the same plane. The same applies to ships although I can move the ship to different elevations (always by accident at this point).

10. As I said before lanes bother me as well. My defense system is basically a slam dunk with the current AI. If there has to be lanes then have them between the stars only and free space between all the planets.

11. A suggestion, i would love to be able to track battle stats by planet and star systems. I know its an egghead suggestion but if you going to give the player stats then make them highly detailed I say.

12. I would like to have medals to award to ships with special bonuses. They could be based on a level of tonnage per engagement taking into account the specific planet and or star system and number of battles fought there as well as players -etc... Something like the system used in Silent Hunter but ship based would be nice.

13. The scale of ships next to the stars looks good but next to the planets they simply look wrong. I would consider making the planets bigger and adding some moons. While I'm on the topic of size the objects also seem rather large for the planets as well.

14. The gravity wells (GW) seem a little to small when one has a fully developed system. While I'm on the topic the placeable objects seem a little to big as well. Maybe it is them coupled with the ships that makes the planets look dwarfed.

15. The capital ship explosions are truly something special to behold. I would like to see them cause damage to other ships within the explosion area just to really make it meaningful.

16. An auto retreat option that can be set by the player would really be nice especially when one has dozens of high level ships in combat and cant look at all of them at one time.

17. An auto level advance option would also rock. For example when I build a capital ship I can select all the advancement options I want up to the max level and when it reaches that experience level it enables that selection.

18. An easy way to use the elevation ability. I simply cant figure out how to do it at the moment. When I do manage to do get ships to climb higher then the others it is always in a pitched fight and I dont know what keys I am hitting (large fingers) and I would like the ships to enter a system already on different levels. This would also go a long way in reducing the crowded feel when one gets a couple dozen ship together all at the same elevation. I cant count the number of times I have seen ships hit each other moving becasue they are all on the same plain.
Reply #10 Top
17. You can do this by right clicking the level up button (same as everything else in Sins).

18. Tilde (~) key or change it in the options screen to something you prefer.
Reply #11 Top
@Iron - I'll try the right click. Regarding the tilde I have held it several times and try to get ships to move in different areas but I guess I must be missing some fundamental concept of movement because I cant get them to go where I want.

On a different topic:

I have mentioned a few times that the type of game I would like this to be would one of a combination of a several classic titles plus Homeworld.

For those of you that might not know the classic except Masters of Orion here are links to the others.

1. Pax Imperia
2. Stars!


The thing I liked best about Pax was that you designed everything!! What I liked best about Stars was the shear scope and breadth with all the micromanagement and stats any hardcore gamer or statistician could possible want plus a whole lot more. For Masters it was all the subsystems and game play. Finally with Homeworld it was the majestic beauty and visual scale that appealed most.
Reply #12 Top
UPDATE:

Since I have gone into detail on different things in other posts I wont elaborate on the same items in this thread. I'll post links to the other threads as needed.

Links to the other threads:

Comprehensive Unit Information Worksheet

Black Market (BM) Ideas

NOTE: Sorry about the double post I really hate to do such things.
Reply #13 Top
[quote]I was PO big time so I sent 3 battleships and I KNEW they would do the job. Guess what??? TOAST!!! They ALL kept shooting at the damn mines while the then 10 scouts scouts cut them down. I was so angry I slammed my keyboard and it cost well over $150!!! That has to change or it is a deal breaker. We must have a priority target system that the player can select.[quote]

calm down dude...beta1 remember? The targetting is allready being adressed.


17. An auto level advance option would also rock. For example when I build a capital ship I can select all the advancement options I want up to the max level and when it reaches that experience level it enables that selection.

There is an auto-upgrade. Rightclick the level-up button to toggle it.
Reply #14 Top
@Alcari - No worries brother. I get caught in the heat of the moment sometimes.

Additionally, I'm aware of the "auto use" for the upgrade. What I want is to be able to preselect the ability for each level so when it reaches it, it auto upgrades what I selected for that level because some abilities have a few level and I may want to enable all the base abilities before advancing in any one or I could simply want to max out one at a time.

Reply #15 Top
You want ability queuing, in other words.
Reply #16 Top
Yes! Give me ability queuing And make that auto setting persistent when you save and load the game again. Right now it reverts to manual every time you load a savegame.
Reply #17 Top
Yes "ability queuing" fits the bill nicely.

Additionally while I'm on the subject of capital ships I would really like to be able to custom build my flagship as well as select its class.
Reply #18 Top
Custom ships would be awesome. I guess the main challenges with it are balance and art issues.

Art issues are probably the most difficult of the two. They need to make sure that the hulls can handle the weapon configurations.

Id really like it if they made all of the different weapons \ systems selectable and able to receive orders \ battle plans. Battle plans basically being a specific target priority list per weapon system.

If subsystems can take damage seperately from the hull it would make things more interesting. Rather than doing it the "power bar" way every other game does which basically amounts to your ship being 100% functional until its last hp is gone and then it explodes completely leaving no trace.


.... WHICH REMINDS ME! Harvestable space debris from ships would be great. Aside from the bonus resources the ship graveyards from large battles would be quite nice to see.
Reply #19 Top
@Skothus - I dont think the art would be an issue given they would know the total number of sub systems they are allowing on a ship.

Regarding command and control, I hope they allow order of battle options because without it the game is nothing more then a simple shooting gallery with pretty pictures when it comes to fleet engagements.

On the topic of salvage, it is already in the game just not enabled as far as I understand things.
Reply #20 Top
Customizable units in games are always tricky. Take the battleship model for example, if someone made a custom battleship with no main gun but with only smaller anti fighter weaponry where would the shots come out of? They could get around it by forcing the player to pick 1 main gun, 2 anti fighter weapons or whatever( to match the model ).

I would love to see blank hull models for each size class that each have a certain number of hard points where the user can pick weapons\systems for each one and then just Lego attach them on.

It would be tricky to make a blank model though, because they would have to make sure that all the attachable items fit properly, dont clip through each other etc.
Reply #21 Top
@Skothus - I dont see really see it as tricky at all but more so an artistic challenge. One I believe the artists on the project are more then capable of handling. I look at tricky with regards to the code aspect of the project, which as far as I ascertain from the code I have seen there really is no issue with giving us this option. But hey I'm no expert programmer because if I was I would have my own game many years ago.