Hypocritical Buddhists!

from JoeUser Forums

As a Christian, I have often heard people that are turned off to Christianity tell me that Buddhism is the kind of faith that attracts them. The idea of peace, and of being in harmony with the universe appeals to them, and Buddhism, to them, embodies that sort of ideal.

The problem is, in many years of encounters with people of all faiths, I have yet to meet many Buddhists who live the kind of faith that Buddhism preaches.

I could say similar things about Islam. Despite all of its protestations of being a religion of peace, I have only met a handful of Muslims that were not anti-semitic on some level, and have met several that were virulently so.

And as for Scientology...look at Tom Cruise. The guy's plain off his rocker. John Travolta still seems sane, but some of the people in Scientology are truly flipped out, despite belonging to a religion that claims to get rid of those kinds of things. I'd rather go to a dinner party with Brooke Shields on her antidepressants than with Tom Cruise.

What strikes me, though, is despite the fact that there are so many people in each of these faiths whose lifestyles are anything but what the faith teaches, you don't find people making a big deal about "hypocritical Buddhists", or "Friday only Muslims". In fact, of the world religions, the one that gets viewed with the most critical eye is Christianity.

Now, I have my own reasons as to whym, but I'd like to hear yours. Why aren't the same criticisms levelled at Christians levelled at practitioners of other faiths, even when the very same problems exist in those other faiths?

religion
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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think it's mostly because Christians try to solicit other people to become Christians. Of course a lot of Muslims are the same way (or worse).

I don't have a favorable opinion of any religion.

What cracks me up is I get relly obsene "funny" emails from the same people who send me "Don't delete this if you love Jesus" emails.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Maybe it has something to do with truth. 

Obviously everyone doesn't believe Jesus is the truth, but in my life experience, the ones who are the quickest to point out mistakes, are the very ones who deep down recognize the same error in their own hearts.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
What cracks me up is I get relly obsene "funny" emails from the same people who send me "Don't delete this if you love Jesus" emails.


Those annoy me as well.

As for pushing religion, honestly, Tex, I have found Buddhists as a whole to be some of the most pushy people there are. But people don't hold them to the same standard. And my Unitarian aunt? FAR more dogmatic than Fred Phelps. Just in different areas.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Wow. What is up with my spelling today?
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hello Gideon,

Buddhism is not a faith in the sense that Christianity is. It has no dogma, no central hierarchy, no articles of faith: even its precepts vary widely from sect to sect and are, in the end, precepts not commandments. Buddhism is a practice rather than a belief system and works from the inside out over a very long period of time, is exceptionally forgiving and tolerant of errors or misteps by its practitioners. In the final analysis, by definition, it could not have a "hypocrite" in the same sense as a theistic faith follower. We practice to be the Buddhas we are; we are not always successful. Still, in the end, we are always perfect and complete, just as we are.
Be well.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
We practice to be the Buddhas we are; we are not always successful. Still, in the end, we are always perfect and complete, just as we are.


This sounds eerily like "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"

Buddhism is not a faith in the sense that Christianity is


ARRRRRGGGHHH!

This statement annoys me just as much as the statement "Christianity is not a religion". Buddhism is very DEFINITELY a faith; while it may be more loosely defined and open to interpretation, it is quite certainly a faith.

I do appreciate your perspective, even as we disagree, sodaiho.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Why aren't the same criticisms levelled at Christians levelled at practitioners of other faiths, even when the very same problems exist in those other faiths?


OK, I'll bite...er, I mean answer your question...with a question.

How many people of other faiths are there in this country compared to the number of Christians?
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good question Gid. Of course I believe it's all tied in to the truth as Tova suggested.

I was just thinking about this the other day. The Christians are the ones called intolerant because they think they have the answer in believing the only way to heaven is thru Christ.

But doesn't every major religion have some sort of exclusivism attached to it? I think Ba'haism is the only group out there I can think of that is all inclusive. The rest of us seem to be exclusive. But it's only the Christians that get bashed for their belief that their's is the only way. Certainly Islam feels that way. Hinduism too. Buddhists feel their's is the right path as well.

The real problem is not that there is just one way.....because if there were 1000 ways to God, we'd want 1001 ways. It's the prideful sin nature of man.

I find it interesting that Jesus talked about truth to the doubter Thomas in Jn 14:6. "I am the way, truth and life, no man comes to the Father but by me." I find it interesting because the story goes that Thomas ended up in India and paid with his life there and today there is a monument dedicated to him in I think Madras. In India, of course, Hinduism rules. Hindus believe there way is the only path to God. Yet, it's not uncool to be a Hindu. Maybe it's because they have so many lifetimes to get it right.

Truth by definition is exclusive.




Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have found Buddhists as a whole to be some of the most pushy people there are.


Wow, this really surprises me. I have had exactly the opposite experiences with Buddhists. While not a practicing Buddhist, I admire the philosophies of Buddhism and subscribe to these teachings more than I do to any Christian philosphies. As Sodaiho pointed out, "It has no dogma, no central hierarchy, no articles of faith", which, for those who have not studied Buddhists philosophies, might be a little hard to grasp. However, I do agree with you that Buddhism is a faith. Multilateral and interpretive yes, but still a faith.

Allow me to answer Abe Cubbage's question about how many other faiths beside Chrisitian are in the United States:

Religions: Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

These figures are taken from the CIA's World Factbook so I'm assuming these statistics are correct. So I guess the answer is that, in the US, Christians far outweigh the other religious groups and, by sheer power of numbers, are much more likely to be seen being hypocritical. It is unforunate but I guess, when you live in a Christian country, this is one of the knocks you have to take.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mormon 2%


We're growing! Chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga-choo-CHOO!!!!!!

[/hijack]

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gideon, All,

So sorry for your annoyance. But, upon what do you base your claim that Buddhism is a faith? It has no god, no articles of faith, no dogma. Practitioners have faith, but not in "Buddhism", rather the Buddha Way. That is to say, the practice of the Buddha's teachings. Buddhism is, then, a practice that is a religion, but it is not theistic. We worship nothing at all, as practitioners, yet hold all things sacred.

Everything in this universe is complete, just as it is, i.e., perfect, Gideon.

When everything is truly understood as one, there is nothing to forgive and no one to forgive. There is no error and there is no atonement. Just do what is in front of you to do.

KFC, Buddhism is inclusive. The "Right Path" you hint at should not be understood in the same way as "right v. wrong" in our language. We do not exclude anyone. You are very welcome to sit down and practice zazen, nothing in our religious point of view would suggest that you should ever give up your religious point of view. I would ask you to use zazen to deepen your faith and enrich your practice as a Christian.


The only truth that is exclusive is the truth of Small Mind and it is the mind of delusion. Big Mind, the Universal Mind includes everything, the so-called good, bad, right or wrong. Like God, Universal Truth encompasses the universe and resides therein.

When Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life," etc. I believe he meant his example is the way. Follow his lead. The Truth, like Dharma, is the reality of our existence without the delusion of dualism. Life lived fully and completely and when lived in balance with deep compassion and love, we manifest the Father, that is, our True Nature.


Be well.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
As I understand it, the meaning of 'faith', in context of Buddhist teachings, has more to do with the question: "What is faith?" as opposed to the statement: "I have faith". Seeking to understand is the quest of all Buddhists, for it is with true understanding they are able to find their Buddha Self.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you're concerned only Christians get accused of hypocrisy in this dark world, you can rest assured the others get it just as much. Friday Muslims are a big 'problem' in Indonesia and are on all the religious talk shows. And of course Tibetan Buddhism is facing its schism between the old, pacifist guard like the Dalai Lama and the younger folk who don't believe in pacifism and want to follow the Palestinians in what would be very unBuddhist behaviour.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

Religions: Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

I think Abe was leading up to the point that Christians get the most criticism, because they are the largest group by profession.  And I would say that is the answer to Gideon's question.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good Morning LW,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I apologize if I seem to come off as condescending. Not intentional. I hold other faiths in very high regard and do not want people to give up their faith for my practice. On the other hand, I do not want to sit by passively while being whacked on the head and stabbed in the heart by those very same faiths for my practice either. In my defense perhaps I am a bit too aggressive. Each of these are real practice opportunities. Thank you.

A bow to you.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good Morning Gideon,

Pushy Buddhists? Hmmm. Not my sangha. We are as low profile as you can get. Not door knocking, pamphleting, signage, neon lights. Just black robes and a cushion facing a plain wall. No one is ever asked to take the refuges, in fact, it is fairly sdtandard practice to turn people away at least three times. Hardly pushy. What has been your experience?

Be well.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have had exactly the opposite experiences with Buddhists.


We live on different continents, they could well be completely different where you live. I can't say.

Numbers shouldn't increase or lessen INDIVIDUAL accountability to hold to the tenets of their faith. "But there's more of you" doesn't give you an excuse to be an A***. I mean, there ARE more females than males in the world, right? So should that justify chauvinism? You be the judge.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
would ask you to use zazen to deepen your faith and enrich your practice as a Christian.


I've heard that there's a belief out there that both Christianity and Buddhism work well together and I have to say, that's not true. While there are some good teachings from Buddhism that go along with biblical teaching, as a whole the two would not be able to reconcile.


As Sodaiho pointed out, "It has no dogma, no central hierarchy, no articles of faith",


We need to remember that Buddhism came out of Hinduism but unlike Hinduism Buddhism can point to a specific founder. I would have to say there is dogma tho and it comes out of their sacred scriptures which is about 11 times larger than the bible. I do believe that Buddhism as a whole tho is really like Hinduism still, a family of religions rather than a single religion or faith.

When Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life," etc. I believe he meant his example is the way. Follow his lead.


It's very clear....... he said I AM the way. I AM the truth, I AM the Life. Not, I'll show you the way. He IS the way. Remember he said, "I AM the door."

The issue should not be whether or not we like this claim, but whether or not it is true. If true, we have two conclusions to follow. One is that we are deceiving ourselves if we think that we can get to God (or heaven) any other way. Second, if we are already following this way (Jesus) we are called to be witnesses to the truth.

When Pilate washed his hands before the soon to be crucified Christ, he asked "What is truth?"

Truth was standing right in front of him.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gideon,

But there's more of you" doesn't give you an excuse to be an A***.


I agree with you on this, for sure. Yet, there are those who continue to be hypocritical, regardless. It is just the way some people are, or, to couch it in Buddhist terms, it is their nature.

KFC,

We need to remember that Buddhism came out of Hinduism but unlike Hinduism Buddhism can point to a specific founder.


This is incorrect. Buddhism came out of India, which is predominantly a Hindu nation but it didn't rise from Hinduism.

I do believe that Buddhism as a whole tho is really like Hinduism still, a family of religions rather than a single religion or faith.


I don't know how you can say you believe it to be like Hinduism. Do a little research and you will find it to be very different indeed. To put it in your terms, Christianity could also be viewed as a 'family of religions' too.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
"But there's more of you" doesn't give you an excuse to be an A***. I mean, there ARE more females than males in the world, right? So should that justify chauvinism? --Gideon


Who was justifying it?
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Abe,

Well, your answer seems to.

My point was, and is, why we don't hold people of other faiths to the same standard as Christians. Numbers should have nothing to do with it.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gideon,

I thought the point of your article was to ask why there is more criticism of Christians in America (my assumption, if you meant worldwide please correct me). This is an entirely different question than, "why we don't hold people of other faiths to the same standard as Christians".

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Why aren't the same criticisms levelled at Christians levelled at practitioners of other faiths, even when the very same problems exist in those other faiths?


The above was the question posted verbatim, which is exactly that question, abe. I didn't think it was that complex when I asked it but obviously it needed more elaboration
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is incorrect. Buddhism came out of India, which is predominantly a Hindu nation but it didn't rise from Hinduism.


The way I've heard it put is that people living at the time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts was continuing to grow. Many of the Hindu beliefs were met with dread so the people turned to a variety of beliefs including the worship of animals to satisfy this spiritual vacuum. Many diff sects of Hinduism arose with Buddhism being one of the most successful with Siddhartha Gautama as the founder.

I don't know how you can say you believe it to be like Hinduism.


I say that because of the many forms it takes. From what I understand (and I'm not an expert here) there is a wide variety of belief in the diff sects with much that is contradictory. There is so so many forms within Buddhism (literally hundreds of forms) that's why I called it a family of religions rather than a single religion.

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
The above was the question posted verbatim, which is exactly that question, abe. I didn't think it was that complex when I asked it but obviously it needed more elaboration


Obviously.

Why aren't the same criticisms levelled at Christians levelled at practitioners of other faiths


What are you talking about? You did exactly that in this very article. Are you saying you are the only one to have ever done so? Of course you aren't. You are saying you just don't hear about it very much. Why? Because there aren't very many people of other faiths in this country (comparatively).