Is homosexuality normal?

Thoughts.

from JoeUser Forums
While reading an article on homosexuality, I noticed a lot of people would ask the same question, "what is normal". I don't see why people find it so confusing, it is simple. Normal, of course, is everything the bible says is right (if you aren't religious, it is what you don't find disgusting). Abnormal is everything the bible says is wrong (and what you find sick).

Some people try to propose homosexuality is something that is in genetics that they are born with it, which of course is not the case. Sure some animals may show signs of various sexual deviancy, however, they have no souls and humans are above animals, made in god's image, a class of our own. God would not make someone gay if he thinks it is an abomination. Someone may be more susceptible to homosexuality, just like violence and other sins. However, homosexuality is an abnormal pursuit regardless if both involved want to be with each other. All they are doing is confusing themselves and bringing down the morals of themselves and those around them. If they are willing to go against one thing so clearly written in the bible, who knows what else they will. Yes, everyone sins, but the problem is this is becoming mainstream, and accepted in today's society... how much more of the bible will be ignored? How much further will our society degrade?

Who needs to think through the topic for themselves? The bible does it for you. Even with the creation of laws, don't bother considering it may be genetics, or that both partners are mutually consenting, or gays just want love and companionship like everyone else... the bible, no GOD, says homosexuality is evil, and evil begets evil. Support or practice the abnormal, and suffer God's wrath. Not only will you suffer after death, you will also be partly responsible for the decline of the country and society and suffering of others. With such decline, disease, prostitution, necrophilia, pedophilia, and every other evil will run rampant.

Now, if you are having difficulty taking the bible on its infallible word on this topic, or you aren't religious yourself (and going to hell) one thing that can help is to de-humanize the group as the sexually lustful, immoral, sinful, drug addicts that they are. Remember, it is an abomination to the lord and is no better then any other sin (rape, murder, adultery). Don't fall prey to their "logic".
religion
14,346 views 101 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
lol,,,this merits a "rerun" of the now famous "letter to dr laura." allegedly sent after she had made comments about the bible clearly condemning homosexuality ....



Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Unfortunately...I wouldn't take the Bible at face value if I were you. It has been written, rewritten, and translated hundreds of times by people...different people that may have an agenda to push. Everything you read in there should be taken with a grain of salt. Don't get me wrong, it's got some good points...the Ten Commandments are pretty good...and most of the messages are useful. I'm not too sure on what it says about homosexuality for the most part for 2 reasons...homosexuality doesn't concern me and I don't read the Bible that often if at all. I suppose religion can help you rationalize some things...but I don't see what the great debate is. If being gay bothers you, then don't concern yourself with it. I'm perfectly happy as a heterosexual letting homosexuals do what they want...I really don't think gay people will be the downfall of our society. I'm not exactly sure how homosexuality is evil, either. I mean, it doesn't seem natural or "right" because of the sheer fact that it's an evolutionary dead end...but who am I to judge? I have my own issues to deal with than worry about who's screwing who(or what for that matter). More horrible things have been done in the name of God than in the name of gay...something's wrong with that picture. I'm not all that hell bent on being religious...if God really is that uptight about everything...then I guess everyone is screwed, because who among us does not sin?

As long as they don't have gay sex with me, then I'm content to let them live the way they wish....

~Zoo
Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I was really considering becoming a lesbian before reading this article. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. You have done a great service. (said with tongue firmly in cheek - and no that isn't a lesbian thing - why would you think that? - pervert)
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks Sean for posting that. I've personally always wondered how literal Christians can live in society without spending all their time in jail. Their faith demands so many barbaric acts of murder and depravity it's a wonder they ever get things done.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm going to go out on a limb and admit that I don't think it is "normal". For that matter I don't think S&M is "normal". Nor people who like to watch others go to the bathroom, nor people who like to watch women step on food.

Is it "evil"? Is it even any of my business? Sorry, I can't see, I have this beam in my eye. Old Testament minded people believe that we still police "evil", as Moses slaying the Israelites who worshiped the golden calf. They also still believe that nations as a whole are struck down for their median sinfulness, etc.

Never mind the fact that it simply isn't true. Israel flew to pieces while their pagan, adulterous, perverted opponents lived on. Sure, they "sinned" and got punished for it, but no one else was sinning any less. Feel free to argue that, but in the end the righteous and upright don't fair a damned bit better, and often much worse.

So, perhaps one has to step back and wonder if maybe, just maybe, a lot of that "law" that Israel praised itself for being graced with wasn't perhaps made-up social values that God doesn't give a hang about either way. Paul tells us that for one man meat sacrificed to other gods may be a sin, while for another it may just be meat. Does that sound like the OT standard?

Nope. And, as we are reminded over and over, God doesn't change. So meat was just meat back then, too. What matters Is the intent of one's heart, and one's relationship with God. THAT, no one can judge EXCEPT God. So, while I don't believe homosexuality to be normal, I have enough trouble with this big stick in my own eye, so I just don't have the time to decide what God thinks about it.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Support or practice the abnormal, and suffer God's wrath. Not only will you suffer after death, you will also be partly responsible for the decline of the country and society and suffering of others. With such decline, disease, prostitution, necrophilia, pedophilia, and every other evil will run rampant.


Sounds like I'm probably duly and truly fucked.   Ever heard of the westboro baptist church per chance?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Personally I don't believe it's "normal" (whatever the hell that is), but it's also none of my damn business if two consenting adults choose to bugger each other regardless of their genders.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Speaking of normality I've never met this alleged 'normal' person. Every person I've ever met diverts from the perfect stereotype in some way. They might eat seafood, they might work sundays so they can pay bills, they might swear occasionally, they might use more than just the missionary position when having sex, they might even have sex outside of marriage. Does that mean they too will be smote? If so at least all us sinners will have good company.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Speaking of normality I've never met this alleged 'normal' person


I've always maintained that if one were to ever meet a true textbook normal person they would be the most boring individual on the planet.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
they would be the most boring individual on the planet.


And I think they would seem like the single most messed up person out there.

Speaking of normality I've never met this alleged 'normal' person.


The other problem with Jason's definition of "normal" is it's HIS definition of normal. I'm sure that cacto's would be different from Mason's would be different from Shovel's would be different from Zoo's would be different from Baker's would be different from mine . . .
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't think normal is the best way to describe it. Like many have said what is normal? I personally agree it's an abomination and abnormal. But to put it correctly we should say it's, according to God's laws, a sin and a grieveous one at that. But it's no more sin than any other sin. Sin is sin.

As far as the Dr. Laura piece SConn, you are comparing the laws given to the Hebrews and one universal one given to all mankind. Yes, God made it very clear to the Hebrews that homosexuality was a sin. But just so we don't misunderstand that it wasn't just for the Hebrews he again pointed this out in the NT as well in Romans 1 and 1 Cor 6 naming all the sexual sins including the one mentioned here. So while we don't have to worry about the sacrifice or the Sabbath we do need to think about what we are doing with our bodies....so says God in the NT as well.



Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
As far as the Dr. Laura piece SConn, you are comparing the laws given to the Hebrews and one universal one given to all mankind. Yes, God made it very clear to the Hebrews that homosexuality was a sin. But just so we don't misunderstand that it wasn't just for the Hebrews he again pointed this out in the NT as well in Romans 1 and 1 Cor 6 naming all the sexual sins including the one mentioned here. So while we don't have to worry about the sacrifice or the Sabbath we do need to think about what we are doing with our bodies....so says God in the NT as well.


i think ya really missed the point and the humor of that old email kfc,,,take care tho:)

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
oooook SConn....I'll do that...you too....  
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Yes, God made it very clear to the Hebrews that homosexuality was a sin. But just so we don't misunderstand that it wasn't just for the Hebrews he again pointed this out in the NT as well in Romans 1 and 1 Cor 6 naming all the sexual sins including the one mentioned here."


And, coincidentally, the first verse of chapter two, right after Paul relates what you describe, is:

"[1] Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ha Sean, I dunno... that letter is much more sarcastic then my article, I am sure Laura got that she was being mocked... some people miss the sarcasm in my post. Is it because they support what I am saying, or because they think someone can be idiotic enough to actually believe the stuff I propose?

So, some of you can accept homosexuality and dont mind if people practice it, but when it comes to marriage, it is unacceptable? Why is that?
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
"So, some of you can accept homosexuality and dont mind if people practice it, but when it comes to marriage, it is unacceptable? Why is that?"


There is a difference between doing what you like in the privacy of your own home, and expecting the state to LICENSE the practice. There is no democratic right to tell consenting adults that they can't have a gay relationship. There is most definitely a democratic right to representation as to the laws we pass in our government.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
By the last sentence Bakers, you simply mean you have a right to vote against it? Did I miss something?
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
...that said, I also don't believe in any constitutional amendment to ban it forever. I think the people of each state should decide, given that marriage licenses are a state affair.

" By the last sentence Bakers, you simply mean you have a right to vote against it? Did I miss something?"


No, there is no license for gay marriages now, except in those places where people want it. The process of adopting such should be a democratic effort.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I dunno baker, there are gays in every state, so people want it everywhere, maybe not the majority, but if you can adopt and be married in one state, what happens if you have to move? Why divide the country like that? Wouldn't it be better for the kids and gays if there were nationwide laws? This seems like to big of an issue to be divided by state.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
We have that problem already with divorce proceedings. People travel to Las Vegas for no-fault divorces, so inevitably there will be people who travel to other states to get married. They do so because of age requirements often already.

Like you say, there's no preventing it. Issuing licenses is, constitutionally, in the state's realm, though, and everything we take away from the states and hand to the federal government is one more local decision people on the other side of the nation suddenly get a say in. The less we do federally, the more power we keep in our hands.

I don't believe that I have the right to tell people in California how to govern themselves any more than I think they have the right to tell me.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
And, coincidentally, the first verse of chapter two, right after Paul relates what you describe, is:


first what are you saying? I'm not homosexual. At least the last time I checked.

actually if you look at the whole passage carefully you'll see it goes all the way to 3:20. It's really God's indictment of the world showing why man needs God's rightesousness cuz we're not doing so hot down here. Man is condemned because truth was given to him 1:19-20 and because he by his actions rejected it 21-32.

What you pointed out was directed to those who thought they were so moral (that's not me...I already told you I broke all 10 commandments didn't I?) Paul was saying that even those who may not have committed the sins described in Chap 1 are also guilty before God....that means we all are.

But that still doesn't let the homosexual off the hook before God.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
'But that still doesn't let the homosexual off the hook before God.'


And when they stand before God, they'll either be on the hook or not. They don't stand before you or any other person for judgment. You seem to be saying that as long as you admit your guilt, you can judge freely. I remember something about people seeing to the beams in their own eye.

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

I was about to repost the same thing Sean posted so thanks Sean for saving me the trouble.

Defining what is normal based on what's in the bible is like people defining what's normal based on what's in Lord of the Rings.

The bible is a very nice mythology that millions of people believe is literally true. Good for them. But arguing that the various contradictions in it define "normal" is really pushing it IMO.

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Defining what is normal based on what's in the bible is like people defining what's normal based on what's in Lord of the Rings."

Yes, there is no concise definition of normal, what one person or group of people think is normal can be different then another group. The bible is not the end all be all source for defining normal, sure some things make sense, but not all. The same with your personal views, they may be accurate 80% of the time, but you cannot go by what you find sick/disgusting, you have to think through the behaviour and find who it is harming, if anyone, and are both partners consenting and not forced.

There really is no good definition of normal.... acceptable is a better term to use. Something should be acceptable if it isn't harming anyone and those involved are consenting and not forced or tricked.