I really think this is worth trying.

From a technical standpoint however, it's not a trivial change.  We have a few ideas on ratings that we're cooking in our heads at the moment, but we'll have to wait until we finish up other projects before we have the spare people to actually implement any ratings change.

If you don't think its not fair to give a person 5 stars because you believe its rated to low at 2 stars, then quit pissing and moaning when someone gives you 1 star because he feels that its rated to high at 5 stars. Fair is fair.

I didn't.

Po, the visible/listed ratings beside your name...if public would deter honest opinion...if at odds with 'expectations', adding fuel to flame and dissatisfaction.  I doubt it would ultimately benefit as it would lead to more 'nice = 10' comments and/or just no 'rating applied if wanted to be low'....

And, by the way have any of you heard of what's known as the Law of large numbers? Basicly it says voting extremes tend to cancel out when enough people vote. So, all this lip service to we only want to curb voting extremes is without merit, if enough people vote. And, Jafo I'm really beginning to resent this attitude you keep displaying that it isn't my vote to do with as I choose. Or, if it is, it is to be regulated by you and or the moderators as to what it can be. Because that is your endless message. Fair enough, not only will I no longer upload any original creative works of my own I will stop commenting on others works, since my opinion can not be trusted and I will no longer vote as well, until I see some type of meaningful change.

That is assuming two things:

1.  Suffeciently large numbers of people vote on a given skin
2.  Those people cast their honest opinion of the work as their vote

Most works don't receive a very high number of votes overall, so one extreme vote wrecks the curve.

The way the ratings system is setup, is to protect artists from having a few low ratings ruin the overall score of the work.  The consequence of this is that it is also takes more people to RAISE the score.

Jafo:fairyy ... I'm betting the problem you are seeing is a lag between you rating it and the site servers/cache/etc catching up and displaying the applied new rating input.

Thats what I thought- then I tried logging in/out and it was the same rating after I did that in 99% of the cases.

Like I said, the site has been a bit off lately. Its running sluggish and downloads are just not up there even if have a 5 star wall. Maybe its just the time of year and things are a bit slow and no one is taking the time to rate.

I do have to agree with 'Po - sometimes I feel that its all pointless to even spend the time to download and look over something and rate it if its all pre-ordained to never be more than 3 stars from the start.

The bottom line is - you basically have the same people that bother to rate and the rest are just here to d/load and be on their merry way. Not much you can do about it.

Voting aka submitting a rating on a skin was/is and always has been an opportunity for an individual to cast an opinion of what a skin's 'quality' is.

1. Jafo thinks it is good...and votes 4 stars.

Voting has never been a free-for-all interpretation of how to alter a skin's overall average, be it by inflated opinion [exaggeration] or flooding through multiple accounts.

2.Jafo thinks it is good...but it only has a current average of 3...and votes 5 stars so the average will become maybe '4'.

3. Worse still...Jafo sees a '3'...thinks it should be '4' and creates 10 accounts and applies a '5' 10 times.

'1' is how and what voting/opinion is intended to mean.

As mentioned earlier...people are SUPPOSED to be doing it correctly.  Anything less is a disservice to yourself and your fellow Wincustomize.com Users and Skinners.... 

The Law of large numbers doesn't assume Item 2 only item 1 Zoomba. You could have three different voting areas. Staff members, artists(skinners), and citizens. You could also show the number of votes cast and also include reviews. This would be similar to what WinAmp uses. I think it would be a big improvement over the current system. It would encourage good uploads and prohiblt 1 or 2 peoples bias from infuencing things. You vote you have to comment on your vote and your vote is revealed to the community. It would discourage abuses. Secret voting may be essential for voting for elected officials, but it isn't required here and would mitigate tendencies to exteremes in voting.

As mentioned earlier...people are SUPPOSED to be doing it correctly. Anything less is a disservice to yourself and your fellow Wincustomize.com Users and Skinners..

That is one of the things I noticed that isn't happening anymore. I can remember a time if a something had a rating of 2.5 I could give it 3 stars and it actually changed the rating - or maybe at times it was 4 stars. But, lately it seemed even 5 stars did nothing at all. Which was my whole point of this thread. I figured if there was a bug not long ago that was messing up the Mods rating then it could be working visa versa.

Maybe just moderators should do the ratings...most dont bother anyway and it sure would solve the issue.

Jafo, your message has been consistent throughout, if I give something an unapproved of vote for an unapproved of reason you will decry that sort of conduct as unacceptable and/or wrong. That has been your message and that is why my vote does not count. This unfairness that the only way you have found to curb abuses is by extending to yourselves higher weighting in vote tallying to is unjustifiable. You really need to find a better system in my opinion.

Jafo:You are really and profoundly missing the point. Each work should be considered on its own merit...and if you think it is effin-damn good...give it a '10'...that's entirely fine....but do NOT try to put a 20 on it because it currently is only 6 and you think everyone's AVERAGE MUST EQUAL YOUR TOTAL '10'. If it is OK...show so by giving it an OK vote...YOUR OK vote....not push it to stupid levels so the average becomes what you think its average should be...in YOUR own opinion. THAT IS NOT THE INTENT of the system.

BigDog..actually Jafo did say if you think its a 10 - then give it a 10. Noone is telling you what you can give as a rating.

but do NOT try to put a 20 on it because it currently is only 6 and you think everyone's AVERAGE MUST EQUAL YOUR TOTAL '10'

Let's not forget that part. Jafo is quite clearly wanting it both ways with me. He's assuming what I may think and not think. Just ask xDaYSx who has a screen shot currently up, if I go out of my way to do something meaningful about unfairness. Furthermore, this method that a moderator heavier weighted 6 vote mitigates nasty extremes in voting in a more fair way than my underweighted 8 vote(assuming a work was treated unduly harshly in voting) to me is precisely the point. Their message to me is that I cannot be trusted to think and decide for myself. Yet, they extend to themselves extra weighting to their votes and of course given it's their site it is their perrogative to do so. I don't count plain and simple is the way their actions and behavior comes across to me. I am sorry Fairyy~, they may not have intended it to come across that way, but it does. Just think of it, their more heavily weighted vote is the approved of way. And, I can't give something an 8 even though I think it's a 6 and it is currently a 4 is the unapproved of way is outrageous on their part. That is exactly what they have said. They might as well place hidden limits were only 4, 6, and 8 votes count and others don't for the "average" stuff. You can't trust the community to think for themselves afterall. They have to be told what they can think.

And, if I have to work this hard again to be heard around here, I'm goona wait until your back is turned Jafo and then I'm gonna climb back into your race car and start grinding the gears, burning the clutch and pushing all the buttons saying "What does this one do?" So, there.

And, I can't give something an 8 even though I think it's a 6 and it is currently a 4 is the unapproved of way

The intent has always been...vote as the work warrants...not as kickback/correction-attempt for a presumed 'on your part' wrong doing.

If someone suspects a 'wrong-doing' the ideal process is to contact an admin for 'review' rather than an individualistic attempt to sway averages.

I'm not assuming anyone's thinking FOR them. I see no profit from attempting such.

When Wincustomize.com instigated/adopted public voting as a practical way for the community to self-determine what may or may not appear through a search process based on user/community ratings it was certainly hoped that people would adopt a sensible approach to their new responsibility.

Life isn't that cut and dry, as there will always be people who want to work outside adopted system guidelines.

The question you must ask yourselves....do you wish to be pro-active for the community or assist in its regression through disparate stance/s?

I don't want anything 'both ways' with anyone.  Instead I go to great lengths to re-iterate what an individual's skin rating is supposed/intended to reflect.

With monotonous regularity ratings threads of one form or another surface, mostly with one misconception or another fuelling the debate.

At this stage, the intent is that community-based ratings will stay...to give a community-based filtering/search method...a plus FOR the community.

It's very unlikely to be public as contrary to the opinion of some it will stifle honest opinion, not enhance it.  People will either be too nervous about casting a 'low' vote and refrain or will cast low and be subjected to unwarranted 'payback' inciting animosity between members.

Because there can be a tiny minority who may attempt to push an agenda of some kind via these ratings they will remain to be accessible by admins.

Virtually NO adjustments are made.  If there appears to be an 'issue' its originator can be privately spoken to.  Sole reason is to protect the fairness of the system to all skinners alike.

I don't seem to be able to communicate the simple idea of a skin rating process to everyone, no matter how many times/ways it's verbalised.  To those...just keep doing what you perceive to be 'right'.

Wincustomize.com's Admin's prime focus will remain to be the fair-treatment of all Site members, old and new alike....

Hiya Fairyy~, hope you are feeling better and over the sickness from last year

me too Fairyy~! Now.....

And, if I have to work this hard again to be heard around here, I'm goona wait until your back is turned Jafo and then I'm gonna climb back into your race car and start grinding the gears, burning the clutch and pushing all the buttons saying "What does this one do?" So, there

Big Dog....I'm an FIA/FIM Racing Official, not a driver.  On occasion I'm 'Judge of Fact' which can cost drivers a significant amount of money if they transgress....sometimes it'd be cheaper to be crunching those gears...

That job, too requires impartiality and 'fairness'...and after 30 -odd years of it there's been some 'fun'...eg being 'witness for the prosecution' [as it were] for an incident between Arnoux in a Renault and Berger in a Ferrari [F1] and having the then President of France ring up and demand Arnoux's Super licence be cancelled. [it wasn't]....

Anyway, back to the topic....everyone can be/is heard.... and my email addy [for one] is listed for anyone to communicate at length....[which reminds me...I have a heap to go through right now]...

And, if I have to work this hard again to be heard around here, I'm goona wait until your back is turned Jafo and then I'm gonna climb back into your race car and start grinding the gears, burning the clutch and pushing all the buttons saying "What does this one do?" So, there. BigDogBigFeet View BigDogBigFeet's Profile Email BigDogBigFeet Find Posts By BigDogBigFeet R

BDBF...i do understand your frustration and respect the fact that your very passionate about certain things...i'm the same way. bottom line is, things are the way they are until further notice. until then, we should just try to make as much of a positive difference as we can within the community. lead by example...

Listen to me...I'm one to talk Ive put my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion

BDBF stick around...Your a great addition to this community

Ive put my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion

Jack!?!?!?! When did you ever take it out after the first time this happened???


Fairyy~...grape juice mye eye

When did you ever take it out after the first time this happened???

i cant answer that...i've got a foot in my mouth

Wincustomize.com's Admin's prime focus will remain to be the fair-treatment of all Site members, old and new alike....

Can't ask for more than that! On with 2007!

Jafo:Anyway, back to the topic....everyone can be/is heard.... and my email addy [for one] is listed for anyone to communicate at length....[which reminds me...I have a heap to go through right now]...

I'm wishing right about now I had just emailed you and asked you to check if my ratings were working.

I was trying not to bother you... ( sigh)

TAWoods:Hiya Fairyy~, hope you are feeling better and over the sickness from last yea

Thanks Troy and skinnit. Flu season is always a fun time

Fairyy~...grape juice my eye

Everyone knows I only drink grape juice. Don't listen to the Kiwi

If a rating is lower than you think it should be, simply leave a comment saying so. The words will hopefully mean more to the Author than any ratings could.

Anyone that has been around awhile hopefully has learned to ignore the ratings when first uploading. After about a month it will most likely have the rating it deserves.