Ebonics - language or bastardization?

Let me "AX" you a question.

I hate that one.

IG

Let me "AX" you a question.

Exactly! That pisses me off too!!

I studied Linguistics a lot. It was a big part of the "Language Acquisition" part of my "Teaching Second Languages and Cultures" education in college.

Lots of academics have studied Ebonics as a dialect. Compared to "Prescriptive English" (what we learn in grammar books,) Ebonics is very consistent in applying and following grammar rules. In a sense, it is more "logical" in structure than what some of us would consider to be "proper English."

That said: It would be pretty tough to get a job answering phones, or working with vast sections of the public if a person uses that dialect.

I think language and thinking are closely related. I'm not sure which is the chicken and which is the egg, though. Big ideas require big words. Clarity requires precision.

On a lighter note:

Link Warning: swear words, politially incorrect, popups, etc., but very funny....

Sup ...DharmaGrl...
Gotta give you props on your pimpin read.....
much love to ya...

Interesting story...good job

Yo, yo, yo,

Theys just need a little shizzle in they fazizzle!

Mad props, Grl!

"You know, I'm no language purist. I use as much slang and incorrect grammar as anyone else. I just believe in calling things as they are...

..and to me, Ebonics is slang."

Wild applause...standing ovation....:) I'm not a language purist either, but I at least expect to be able to understand what people are saying, and have them understand me. I find myself correcting my 14 yr old daughter a LOT these days...to me, that sort of language just makes you sound less educated, and as an educator, I expect all of my children to be proud of their education and their language, and to make proper use of it.

I expect all of my children to be proud of their education and their language, and to make proper use of it.

My daughter got sent to speech therapy in second grade because she lisped. After 6 months, the lisp was gone and she was speaking really quite well. I listen to some of the slang terminology she uses now, and I want to send her back to speech therapy again!

As a sidenote:
I was watching 'Cops' last night, and some kid got busted for posession after he had engaged the officers in a foot chase. He kept saying "What I did, man? What I did man?" (pronounced "whut I deed, mayun") over and over and over.....

...arrrrgghhhhh!

I believe it is bastardization not language. It just makes me cringe. Slang is one thing but stuff like "ax you a question" and "what I did" just irk me to no end. I'm not expecting perfect English, just the basics. One pet peeve of mine though is "irregardless".........ugh! It just seems like laziness to me. Most other countries teach at least a couple of languages. We can't even handle one language here! We recently had a visitor from Italy who apologized for his English since he never spoke it before and he ended up speaking better English than most Americans I know. Same was true for when we went to Germany. It is just plain embarrassing!

I also hate how corporations use intentionally misspelled words so they can copyright them.

Well think of it this way. stupidity sells. When you have someone loud and making a scene or just acting plain ignorant people flock to see it because its funny to them. This is why the media goes and finds the dumbest, thuggish, non talking person on the block. its sort of like comic relief.

Some of it also can be just what people expect. Ive heard some people attempt to call ebonics on college professors and the like who have never ever set foot in a ghetto anywhere (all the time they said it correctly, and the person doing the blame was in the wrong) If you go in expecting someone to act or sound a certain way your mind is going to go over every single detail to find it, even if it has to imagine it.

good article.

There's a really interesting book by Jack Womack called Random Acts of Senseless Violence that shows a girl's change in vocabulary mirrored by the onset of societal degeneration. You might want to check it out.

I take it none of you have been to the bayou country. You think Ebonics is difficult to follow? Try figuring out what one of the swamp-dwellers from Louisiana is saying!

-- B

They cut all non essential verbs from a sentence; instead of “he is there” they will just streamline it by saying “he there.”

Another thing I have noticed, people who speak Ebonics tend to be rude, like when I’m at a movie theatre watching Star Wars when some thug leaps up and proclaims "yo there go my niggah Yoda" It’s just damn rude.

This isn't unique to English though. It happens all the time in Spanish. Depending on where they are from it can be nearly impossible to decipher what one person is saying, and it isn't just the accent. It is even more apparent in some other languages.

While I was in Guatemala I lived for a while in a city called San Juan Sacatepequez. The majority of the people there were indigenous Mayan people, who still spoke Caq'chi'quel (sp?). The most interesting thing though is that the people of San Pedro Sacatepequez also spoke the same dialect, but they could hardly understand each other. And the two peublos were only 16 km apart.

I think it stems from a need for an identity. Language can be very powerful and is a part of our identity. The formation of or "bastardization" of language often arises out of a desire to create some sort of groups identity for those who speak and understand it. Does that mean I like it? Not really, but I suppose my efforts to speak articulate, intelligent English could be considered part of my identity as well. So in that sense I can't really begrudge them that.

Hmm, I don't even know if that made any sense. Sorry if it didn't.

I think that the point of language is to communicate. If you can understand what a person is saying, then what does it harm that they are using slightly different pronunciations? I think that the development of slang and the acceptance of it is just a natural part of language, and it is pointless to oppose it because it not only doesn't harm anything, but it also adds a little variety.

Good article. If I may share an opinion, it is understandable that ebonics is incorrect English but one cannot really say that any language is pure. Language evolves much like we do and can be seen when looking at dialects. I might speak Spanish to an Argentine colleague who speaks his version of Spanish somewhat different in the form of Castillian Spanish. If for instance I were to dismiss his Spanish as an incorrect form of Spanish that, as far as political correctness goes, would make me wrong because it is still considered a language and does not take away from the fact it is Castillian. Although I do not disagree with your article I can't agree and say any language is pure since English itself is derived from other languages that already existed prior.

"I think language and thinking are closely related."

Yes, but not in the way you might think. I recommend Steven Pinker's book called, "The Language Instinct." Did you know children will create grammar where there is none present? (Like where there is a pidgeon language?) I love linguistics! And this book is EASY for a layperson to read. In short, Orwell's appendix to 1984 was wrong.

Here here, Mr. Frog. "Tupelo Gum Slough" (Slew) said really fast means nothing unless you're familiar with the accent -- and even then you'd never know it was the name of a near by creek (or brook if you're a northerner.) West Texans call ponds "tanks." We all have idiosynchrosies deriving from our ethnic heritage. German Hill country in Texas has it's own flavor. In San Antonio, you can have a "Hispanic accent" but not know Spanish. The "Ebonics" is unique in that it transends the proximics that generally regulate cultural speech. It thrives on media and is therefore, in my opinion, a corporate-sponsored culture. It's popular for the same reason high schoolers paint their nails black and wear fishnet pantyhose on their arms. Or have mohawks. It's corporate separitism.

The formation of a new vocabulary (or "bastardization" of language) often arises out of a desire to embolden some sort of group's identity for those who speak and understand it. I think it's like any jargon. Legalese, shop talk, even WWF fans have their own jargon. However educated folks can transition between the two.

"Another thing I have noticed, people who speak Ebonics tend to be rude, like when I’m at a movie theatre watching Star Wars when some thug leaps up and proclaims "yo there go my niggah Yoda" It’s just damn rude."

I think that is a huge generalization. You may support your claim if you contend that most Ebonic speakers are ignorant and ignorance leads to rudeness, but that is simply not the case. Most have educations but prefer the dialect. I know how to speak properly and can do so when I make public speeches or have job interviews. However we have language registers -- we can go from formal to standard to informal or any variance depending on the needs. I live in East Texas and we have our own dialect. When I "correct" my dialect in an informal situation, I usually face laughter and cannot make a comment without people focusing on my "mid-westernized" dialect. Why would I want to do that?

I think the claim focuses on isolated instances. What about the people who speak with standard registers to you (who you deem as kind) and then speak "Ebonics" at home? Are they suddenly unintelligent? They're not rude. Yes, the behavior you descibe was unquestionably rude, but I think anyone, when supported by a group who are or experinece lapses in immaturity could just as easily have exhibited the same rude behavior. It's because of the group support, not the language. Had the person been alone, they'd not have been rude.

To answer the question at hand, the by-the-book defintion says it is not a language, but a dialect. Because it does observe regular grammar rules (trust me, they're there -- and I don't think they leave out "is" as someone suggested; it's replaced by "be") it is a viable dialect. I don't think it can be called a bastardization unless you want to refer to every dialect that is NOT mid-western as bastardization (requiring everyone to always speak in either formal or standard English) or if you consider it so because it is "created" and "pushed" by American corporations. (In that case, all slang is bastardization because it usually results from pop-culture.) That's my humble analysis. Sorry it's so long.

However this article was just "wicked awesome."

I think that the development of slang and the acceptance of it is just a natural part of language, and it is pointless to oppose it because it not only doesn't harm anything, but it also adds a little variety.

I'm not opposed to slang...I just don't like people labeling slang a 'language'.

I'm not opposed to slang...I just don't like people labeling slang a 'language'.

I agree - Ebonics is closer to Jargon than Language by a country mile...

Interesting read.

Language? No. More properly categorized as dialect.

A large part of the world's languages evolved into languages from dialects. English is probably one of the most hybrid of them all. With a mix of German, Latin, French, and who knows what else, words among early Anglo culture became more or less standardized and evolved into English.

It's probably due to our current technology based society that the dialect known as Ebonics has grown as fast as it has, what with radio, TV, etc. Will it ever evolve into a true language? Possibly, but I doubt it. Because of the transitory nature of modern society's focus, most trends are really nothing more than fads and fade away relatively quick.

An interesting side note. As a father, I've noted as all my children learned to speak, they tended to form their own grammatical rules until corrected. The past tense of break became breakded and so on. A large part of that is the illogic of the English language, but it shows they had learned the basic concepts of present and past tense and were trying to apply them across the board.