What's Wrong with Abstinence?

Should it be taught in the schools?

I spent some time last night at the school board meeting. There has been some heated controversy the last few months about teaching abstinence to the middle school students here. Right now they are being taught what the state recommends, and it's not an abstinence based program. So a group of parents have been making a statement armed with good documentation and organization. They are asking the school if they will consider teaching an alternative to what the state recommends for the parents who are trying to teach their children abstaining until marriage.

Boy, what a pandora box has been opened with this topic. We are talking 11-13 year olds. It's hard to believe but they are sexually active during this age. I was shocked when my kids were in this school years ago and found this to be true.

Anyway an abstinence group came in to give a presentation. They are currently in some school systems across the country and have been very successful in getting the kids to delay either their first sexual encounter or to wait entirely for marriage. The numbers have been very encouraging. They do an entry and exit survey before and after the program. Their findings show the kids are thinking very seriously about what they were taught with an increased number ending the program with the decision it's best to wait in comparison to the begininng when they were unsure and more likely to engage earlier.

The school board allowed an hour for this presentation and it was quite interesting to watch. This was my first meeting, and I could tell immediately who on the school board was disgusted and who was not by watching them. For some, their minds were not going to change by the look on their faces. They hardly looked at the booklets and paperwork passed out prior to the presentation. There was a reporter there as well taking notes. It will be front page when it comes out.

As I slid into my seat, a nurse friend whispered in my ear, "the name calling has begun." I guess these parents are being called right wingers among other things. I have signed on and will join the effort. I'll now be on that list.

The Heritage Foundation's mission is to try and help with behavior instead of dealing with the aftermath of the behavior. The presentation was very detailed, organized and articularly presented. They had it all done with Powerpoint compared to the school's presentation last week which was totally unorganized and overhead projector was used. There were nurses on both sides here who were being used as spokeswomen along the way.

The main spokesperson was the President of the Heritage Foundation, but then later a man who was probably in his 30's got up to speak. He would be an instructor along with the nurse who was with him. He made a good point. He said he never heard of abstinence as a young man and was always told when he asked about sex that "when he was ready" he'd know. So he'd always ask...."am I ready?" When he was in his 20's, he asked, "am I ready now?" He was never told it was best to wait until marriage. It was never clear to him. He wants the kids to be able to hear that alternative. They are not hearing this in the state's sex ed curriculums now.

This all came about because about a year ago there was a "health fair" at the HS. At that fair a Clinic was there and were handing out free condoms. Prizes were given out for any that would put a condom on a wooden structure built just for this type of thing. A kid on the sly went and video taped the whole thing. You can hear the coaxing by the adult in charge and very clearly can see the hesitation and embarrasment of the kids. They were being shown different flavored condoms and encouraged to taste them even. It was pretty disturbing. The condoms were being passed out like candy, and on the video you could see full buckets of condoms free for the taking.

This video made it right to the Principal's office. The few parents involved in this were enraged. This could not be broadcasted because the kids faces were shown and since this could cause some problems the video didn't go too far. I saw the video. It was very upsetting. I felt our kids were being sold down the river and my kids were not involved since they are now gone from the school system. Thank God.

What shocked me even more were the school board members who were enraged. They said things like...."I'm not going to tell my son to wait until marriage and I don't want anyone else to either." "If our kids want to have sex, it's their decision." Hello?

I don't get it. My question is .....Why is it bad to encourage your child to wait until marriage? What's wrong with giving them the alternative to what is currently being taught by letting them know it's ok to wait ? Is it that bad to tell them they don't have to do what everyone else is doing? As I see it, the bar should be lifted, and it's good for all involved. Afterall we're talking 11 year olds. Am I missing something?








36,747 views 79 replies
Reply #1 Top
Am I missing something?


Yep.

Abstinence has come to be associated with religion. Specifically Christianity. The schools are going to resist teaching anything that is even remotely tied to religion.

I understand that since the bible has been translated into modern English they're going to stop teaching English classes too.
Reply #2 Top
hahahah ....hey Mason don't tell anyone....but the bible is in just about every language now.

The Heritage Foundation makes sure they don't mention religion or anything remotely close to that in their curriculum just for that purpose. Their goal is the well being of the kids, emotionally, physically, and spiritually and they said that's as far as they go with any spiritual talk. They are not selling anything either so our kids are not being "sold out" by this organization.

Reply #3 Top
Abstinence is okay to teach...but they also have to teach safe sex along with that. That's what gets me...you can tell someone to not do something all you want...but chances are, if they feel like it, they will do it and you should teach them the safe way to do that if that's what they choose. Abstinence only is a bad idea...that's all I'm going to say...it needs to be partnered with safe sex.

Also, I'm not sure why it's the school's responsibility in the first place...if you want something like that taught to your kids, why not teach them yourself?

~Zoo
Reply #4 Top
Also, I'm not sure why it's the school's responsibility in the first place...if you want something like that taught to your kids, why not teach them yourself?


Actually I agree with this in principle but if the schools insist on teaching a sex ed class they should include abstinence as a part of the course.

Reply #5 Top
What shocked me even more were the school board members who were enraged. They said things like...."I'm not going to tell my son to wait until marriage and I don't want anyone else to either." "If our kids want to have sex, it's their decision."


I wonder who will be shocked when somebodies 12 or 13 year old daughter comes home knocked-up by some middle school kid. Hey wait. Dont younger girls just getting into sex go for older guys? Then again, I guess theres no worry of pregnancy because the kids are all going to use those free condoms like they are told right? NOT.



Why is it bad to encourage your child to wait until marriage?


When I was told to wait until I was married by my parents as a young adolecent, I figured it was like most things my parents told me was morally correct, and it generally went in one ear and out the other. However, they did preach this whenever the "sex" talks came up. I can assure you my parents were NOT handing me condoms, and certainly not having me taste them!! Lets teach our young girls what it tasts like to suck a wrapped c*ck...cripes, what are these people thinking. F*cking do-gooders. I bet none of them have any 12, 13, y/o kids.

I guess these numb-skulls forgot how much violence is caused over sexual relationships (ie, crimes of passion). Is it not bad enough kids tote guns around, now we need to give them yet more reasons to use them? After all, we know how responsible adolecents are.

There seems to be no way of stopping this crazy shit...why do I even waste my breath.

Reply #6 Top
Actually I agree with this in principle but if the schools insist on teaching a sex ed class they should include abstinence as a part of the course.


I agree with this, but does sex-ed need to begin at 11 y/o?
Reply #7 Top
Nothing wrong with abstinance other than I would die.
Reply #8 Top
I think in any school that teaches sex ed, they should also have to teach abstinence.

I can't believe they were handing out condoms. Wow.

It makes it seem more sinister in my mind, as a parent, when adults my children respect and care about, talk about sex and how to go about it "correctly." Then won't go into any details about how to stay out of it too.

Scary.
Reply #9 Top
Also, I'm not sure why it's the school's responsibility in the first place...if you want something like that taught to your kids, why not teach them yourself?


I agree it's the parent's job to teach this.. But if the parents at home are teaching their kids and then they go to school and are taught direct contradictions to what their parents taught, what kind of message are we sending our kids? It's very confusing especially for this age. And what about their peers who are not being taught at home? How do they influence our kids? This is why these parents want their kids to hear the same things that are being taught at home especially since health is a requirement. It's good for the kids to be reinforced. They need that.

For us and some other parents I know, we took our kids out of the health classes. There was a bit of fuss but the school relented. It was easier I think. One guidance counselor told me to keep it quiet and not to broadcast that he was passing my senior son thru even though he didn't take the health class when he was a freshmen.
So shhhhh keep it a secret ok?


Reply #10 Top
Actually I agree with this in principle but if the schools insist on teaching a sex ed class they should include abstinence as a part of the course.


Yes, abstinence as part of the course...not THE course. Best to teach them how to be safe as well as encouraging them to not engage....especially at preteen level. The basic sex ed at my school was don't do it, don't do it, don't do it...scary diseases, pregnancy boogahboogahbooga!!! I don't think it was very helpful in terms of actually teaching us anything.

But if the parents at home are teaching their kids and then they go to school and are taught direct contradictions to what their parents taught, what kind of message are we sending our kids? It's very confusing especially for this age. And what about their peers who are not being taught at home? How do they influence our kids? This is why these parents want their kids to hear the same things that are being taught at home especially since health is a requirement. It's good for the kids to be reinforced. They need that.


Heh...are they so easily misled?...Funny, I always decided on things for myself...but then again, I'm not an average person.(Wow...that makes me sound like a dick. ) Peer pressure had absolutely no effect on me...but I suppose it does for some kids.

~Zoo
Reply #11 Top
For us and some other parents I know, we took our kids out of the health classes.


I imagine this is one reason Gideon home-schools his children. I really hope he responds to your article KFC.
Reply #12 Top
I really hope he responds to your article KFC.


ya, me too. I agree with Gid on this. If I were just having kids now.....no question. I'd homeschool in a heartbeat or put them in a good private school. It's getting worse by the day in the public school systems. Around here the Homeschool parents call them "government schools." They're right too. Many parents don't realize how bad this is until the kid hits HS tho.

I'm not an average person


Peer pressure had absolutely no effect on me...


well Zoo, I'd say you're one in a million........

Reply #13 Top
well Zoo, I'd say you're one in a million..


Really? Do people bend to this peer pressure thing that easily? I remember everyone discussing it...but I never really experienced it. When people said, hey...do this or try thing this, I just said no. Which I guess is the right thing to say...so, I win?...Seriously though...in 18 years I've had no alcohol, cigarrettes, or any other kind of drug that wasn't medically necessary. Maybe I'm a freak...

~Zoo
Reply #14 Top
I can't say I've got a lot of faith in abstinence-based programs. They've never worked in the past (eg in the pre-sex ed days) so I'm not sure why they'd work now.

I for one am glad they had condom handouts, cos I wasn't rich enough to buy my own as well as pay for all the other stuff in life when I was in high school. I could have picked up some really fun STDs if it wasn't for those gov programs.

I don't care if it's taught as part of the course - presumably with the 'best if you don't, BUT' provisio - but it shouldn't be the only thing taught.
Reply #15 Top
Do people bend to this peer pressure thing that easily?


Yes, they do. Like willows on a windy day.

I have no problems with the teaching of abstinence. I don't think they wait till you're married part is as important as the waiting til you're older. Maybe at 11-13 years old it's easier to say wait until you're married and then as the kid gets older they can make that decision for themselves. Personally, I think that there are a LOT of reasons to wait to have sex and I think those should get equal weight to safe sex. And as far as abstinence itself goes, since it is an approach to sexual behaviour, why can't it get fair play in terms of presenting fair and well rounded knowledge about human sexuality? Why does sex ed have to be "this is sex and this is how it's done and this is how to do it so it doesn't ruin your life."?

That getting kids to taste the condoms thing is insane!!!!!!!!!! Handing out condoms in a junior high... borderline for me. 11 year olds? Too far. Getting kids to feel comfortable putting it on something... Uh... I guess it could be helpful in encouraging someone to use it if they had some practice and so didn't freak out and opt out because of being embarrassed about how to use it, but it seems pretty icky. Tasting the condom? WTF????? That pretty clearly goes into the condoms are to be used in PRIVATE!!! And adults encouraging them is pretty scary on a variety of levels.

This totally reminds me of that South Park Episode where the kids have to take Sex Ed.
Reply #16 Top
Tasting the condom?


I'd just like to say I think that's massively out of line. I reckon sex ed should wait til the kids are 13 or so anyway. There are very few sexually active kids younger than 13.
Reply #17 Top
This totally reminds me of that South Park Episode where the kids have to take Sex Ed.


Yes...and that was hilarious...yet still teaches us an important lesson.

~Zoo
Reply #18 Top
I can't say I've got a lot of faith in abstinence-based programs. They've never worked in the past (eg in the pre-sex ed days) so I'm not sure why they'd work now.


I agree. In fact no program involving sex works, we are programed with it. Its a matter of encouraging or disuading preteen and pre-pubecent people from performing in the act.

I for one am glad they had condom handouts, cos I wasn't rich enough to buy my own as well as pay for all the other stuff in life when I was in high school.


11,12,and 13 year olds are not yet in high-school. My view on HS students is a bit different than those in middle and elementary school.

Reply #19 Top
I have no problem with teaching abstinence, but it should not be an abstinence only program. And I have to say I'd be shocked to learn that schools don't teach abstinence. My health classes in high school talked about abstinence all the time, and then talked about safe sex as something to practice when you were older and ready.

My problem lies in the "until marriage" line. I have no problem saying "wait to have sex until you can both financially and emotionally deal with the results of your actions (ie, kids)." But the "until marriage" is a Christian thing, and has no place in a public school. Let's remember, not everyone thinks that sex before marriage is a sin--but most can agree that sex at age 11 is just wrong.
Reply #20 Top
You said that the "Heritage Foundation's mission is to try and help with behavior instead of dealing with the aftermath of the behavior. "

The Heritage Foundation defines itself as "The Heritage Foundation is a research and educational institute - a think tank - whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies." Source: http://www.heritage.org/about/
Right above their Mission Statement is an endorsement by Rush Limbaugh.

Not that I am saying that they are mutually exclusive, but the Heritage Foundation makes its agenda pretty clear. They may be helpful, I don't want to dismiss them out of hand, but they were there to promote a Conservative agenda. One would not gather that from your statement.

The story is a little different if you say "I went to a school board meeting where the President of a group that wants to promote a conservative agenda spoke and the parents didn't want that agenda promoted in the classrooms."

Was anyone actually saying that abstinence should not be taught or were they rather saying that abstinence should not be EXCLUSIVELY taught?

The story about the health fair doesn't sound right to me either. Were there teachers or parents present? Was it during school or after school?

I have an pre-teen daughter and like many parents, I have spoken to her about sex. I also teach her Sunday school class and we talk about morality and behavior. There are real issues and dangers out there, and I am concerned and sometimes worried. But I favor a fact based curriculum that includes ALL the facts. Then I will help her with her life decisions.
Reply #21 Top
Parents need to realize that if they are going to complain about schools teaching 'health issues' it is the fault of parents not petitioning their school board to cease such talk. Instead, because parents have handed off this issue to the schools, they've put themselves in a position to only complain of the conduct of school officials attempts to please everyone at once.

Reply #22 Top
Instead, because parents have handed off this issue to the schools, they've put themselves in a position to only complain of the conduct of school officials attempts to please everyone at once.


Did this actually happen? When did parents decide the school was going to 'handle' these sex/health issues, or were these programs just instituted and developed into what they have become today?

Parents need to realize that if they are going to complain about schools teaching 'health issues' it is the fault of parents not petitioning their school board to cease such talk.


I wonder what a petition would do now. I doubt the sex-ed classed could ever be abolished; there seems to be some state/federal mandate that requires a school have this kind of program?

What Im wondering is if parents ever voted this crap into their schools, or were these programs sim-ply implemented by the government? Did the government TAKE away our parents responsibilities?
Reply #23 Top
In 1918, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) told American parents that “it is no longer possible for you to choose whether your child will learn about sex or not.” According to the PHS, most American boys learned about sex from “improper sources” by the age of nine. The “unfortunate effect of these early impressions” had, PHS warned, not only resulted in a gross misunderstanding of sex, but also been a major factor in the spread of venereal disease (The Parents’ Part [the U.S. Public Health Service, 1918], p. 5). To counter and correct this miseducation, PHS joined with the Young Men’s Christian Association (YMCA) to create a sex education program aimed at adolescent boys. Officially launched in the spring of 1919, the “Keeping Fit” campaign provides a unique insight into the federal government’s attempt to medicalize and regulate American sexuality through the forum of public health. - Abstract of a paper from the 'Scholarly Journal' I can't get to.

I'm guessing those and Planned Parenthood's role are the origins of today's sex ed programs.

In Missouri, 'Health' classes are carried by many public schools because they are paid additional monies for them - that is how they become referred to as 'required'. The local school boards don't wish to bar more money coming in to schools so they will sign any deal they can to bring in more gold to the coffers. Elementary / Middle Schools must provide some HIV/Aids and Std prevention Tobacco, Alcohol, and drug awareness time to be 'accredited' schools in the eyes of the state.

Parents may 'opt-out' their children from the HIV/Aids and Std prevention classes - but who's telling the parents when the programs begin?

Participating Missouri schools also receive federal monies for teaching abstinence.
http://www.siecus.org/policy/states/2005/mandates/MO.html

What Im wondering is if parents ever voted this crap into their schools, or were these programs sim-ply implemented by the government?

It's a combination of both, Xythe.
Reply #24 Top
Deference the link is here: Link

Then, as now, sex education was funded in an attempt to stem the tide of Sexually Transmitted Diseases.

As Deference also noted, there is Federal funding for programs to teach and promote abstinence. So really the issue is NOT about teaching abstinence but about the right to teach about alternatives.

If young people do have sex, which schools discourage, they should know about condoms.