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GalCiv difficulty levels in gold version

GalCiv difficulty levels in gold version

One of the things we did do during the release candidates is make the game much easier to win on the lower levels. We found that experienced strategy gamers would get creamed even when the AI was set to "fool".

But at the same time, at the medium to higher levels, the AI is much more intelligent than it was in the betas. In fact, the beta GalCiv AI was, well pretty crummy compared to the gold version in terms of intelligence (not saying the gold is "harder" to beat, but that the AI is more intelligent in how it behaves).

In the betas, each AI level simply increased the intelligence rating of the player by say 15 points. Here's the problem we had with that:

You'd play on "normal" and get a challenge and then you'd up it a level and get creamed. So a lot of the extra month of development was spend play testing and adding more difficulty levels.

So now each computer player can indvidually be set to the following difficulty levels:

[IntLevel0] Fool
[IntLevel1] Beginner
[IntLevel2] Sub-Normal
[IntLevel3] Normal
[IntLevel4] Bright
[IntLevel5] Intelligent
[IntLevel6] Genius
[IntLevel7] Incredible

With the corresponding intelligence being 4, 14, 36, 42, 50, 60, 65, 100.

We may tweak these or add more after released based on what you guys say.

So now, you have sub-normal, normal, bright, intelligent and genius quite close together. I have not personally won with all the AI's set to genius on a medium sized map or higher. And incredible is just, well the AI gets lots of extra stuff.

Speaking of extra stuff, how do the resources get handled?

The intelligence ratings do two things: 1) They determine how much money they get from colonies.

So in pColony->CalcTaxesCollected() at the end it gets:
ulTaxes = ulTaxes * (40 + ulIntelligence);

So at intelligence = 60 (intelligent) it's getting the same from a colony as you. At Genius it's getting a bit more. And at incredible, all bets are off.

The other way intelligence matters is that it determines whether the AI is going to a) Do a thorough analysis on what players are doing b) Which AI scripts are available to use, and c) Determines whether the AI is going to do anything about it.

Example:
An AI with intelligence 60 will be able to check out its sensor areas and see if you are building up for an attack, fortifying starbases, trying to culturally dominate it, etc. It will then have to roll to see if it is going to do anything about it. I.e. "Do I recognize this as a threat or am I too dumb to see this?". If it rolls that it is going to recognize the threat then it has to roll whether it's goign to actually do anything about it. And if it is going to do something about it then it rolls to see if it will tell the human player about it (if it's a human player that is the threat).

IF the AI FAILS the roll, the human player gets a message from the AI letting it know it's on to what it's doing. Otherwise it quietly lowers relations and prepares for a war.

If you play on say Genius, and build up star bases and ships in a sector you're planning to attack you'll notice ships from other sectors quietly coming in to fortify. Fighters shadowing your transports. Etc.

But on lower intelligence levels, none of this happens. Which is one of the changes. So when you get the game, on Fool and Beginner you should be able to play the game without getting creamed now. This is different than it was in the beta when fool was = Int 15 and the next one up was 30.
5,801 views 61 replies
Reply #26 Top
I think we all have to remember that Artificial Intelligence is, well, artificial. Giving bonuses to the A.I. is one of the "Artificial" parts. It's meant to compensate for what a computer lacks in true creative intelligence. :p
Reply #27 Top
Dear GalCiv developers.

Please add a switch to the game setup that disables all sorts of resource bonuses for AI. Pretty please, I want it hard and I want it fair - I assure you adding that button is worth the small effort. You have created excellent AI, why are you preventing us players from competing it equally?

Pretty please. (:(
Reply #28 Top
LifeWish --

Agreed. Games such as GalCiv are usually so complicated that without bonuses or advantages, it's difficult for an AI to compete with a human player who's had the game for quite some time and become an expert in it -- at least on even terms. At least a resource bonus is less bizarre than, say, EU letting AI-controlled nations completely ignore naval attrition, or many many MANY games giving full knowledge of the entire game state to the AI, or rigging random events to hamstring the leader (usually the human player).

Still, since behavior "cluefulness" and productivity / wealth aren't logically always intertwined, it would be nice to be able to set those independently.
Reply #29 Top
"Well, maybe you should've said that."

I DID say that.

Guys, the AI does not get extra bonuses except at the highest level. Please read what I stated in the article:

-- begin --
With the corresponding intelligence being 4, 14, 36, 42, 50, 60, 65, 100.

We may tweak these or add more after released based on what you guys say.

So now, you have sub-normal, normal, bright, intelligent and genius quite close together. I have not personally won with all the AI's set to genius on a medium sized map or higher. And incredible is just, well the AI gets lots of extra stuff.

Speaking of extra stuff, how do the resources get handled?

The intelligence ratings do two things: 1) They determine how much money they get from colonies.

So in pColony->CalcTaxesCollected() at the end it gets:
ulTaxes = ulTaxes * (40 + ulIntelligence);

So at intelligence = 60 (intelligent) it's getting the same from a colony as you. At Genius it's getting a bit more. And at incredible, all bets are off.
-- end --

If you play with the computer AI level at "intelligent" it is playing exactly as you are. And I suspect few players will be able to win at that level because the AI is so much more efficient at economic managment and such.

At lower levels the AI is penalized in resources.

So let me state it in big capital letters: THE AI DOES NOT CHEAT EXCEPT THAT ON THE HIGHEST DIFFICULTY LEVEL WE GIVE IT MORE MONEY. And to my knowledge, no beta tester has ever beaten the game at AI level set to genius let alone "incredible". So players will have lots of options to play the AI without it getting any resource benefits.


~SDC~
Reply #30 Top
lets wait and see how it plays first eh? :)

~SDC~
Reply #32 Top
Just to work through the math here so that people understand exactly what we mean by colony resource handling:

Let's say a colony normally gets 100 gold from a colony.

Before it reports how much gold actually gets put into that player's economy it goes through this function:

MONEY = SubTotal * (40 + Intelligence)/100;

So in our example, subtotal = 100.

IF the AI is set to "normal" intelligence, then it would be:

MONEY = 100 * (40 + 42) / 100;
MONEY = 82.

So at normal AI intelligence, the AI player would only get 82.

Realistically, the numbers in GalCiv are much more like this:

Subtotal = 24
MONEY = 24 * (40 + 42) / 100
MONEY = 19

Which in the bigger scheme of things is not a big difference, the AI is penalized slightly.

Now, that said, in some future update we could do something like this:

Intelligence is broken up into two parts.
(a) What % of its income it gets to keep between 1% and 200%
(b) How "intelligent" the AI is in terms of going through the algorithms.

But for those who haven't played the game, it is important that you play before worrying too much. The object of the AI is to provide youw ith a fun challenge.

Our goal has been to make a game where the computer players play like humans. Our system is based on literally a decade of game AI work. We're trying to make human-like players.

A REAL human is not going to be totally efficient at handling their economy. Players of Civilization, for instance, know the trick of decreasing their research spending near a new discovery so that they get it in the same # of turns but without having to invest so much on research. A real human is not going to mess with that every turn though.

The algorithms in GalCiv are designed to provide a human-like behavior. That's why we PENALIZE the AI at most of the difficulty levels -- a human player penalizes themselves because humans are not infinitely anal-retentive. Computers can be. We simulate this in taking away some of their resources and not having them act on information they have available.

But we did also want to ensure that someone who has truly TRULY mastered the game could still get a challenge which is why we created the "Incredible" difficulty rating option (might as well be called "Impossible" because I predict you'll have contests on how many turns the player survived in a impossible game).

I hope this clears things up.

~SDC~
Reply #33 Top
Louie,

people will start to talk LOL
Reply #34 Top
A real human is not going to mess with that every turn though.

You give us far too much credit LOL

Anal-retentive resource management was the only way to overcome the AI's production advantages at the highest difficulty levels. It's why I hated to play large maps.
Reply #35 Top
All clear now. Makes sense. Of course, the original intent of my statement "You should have said that" meant you should have said that the AI didn't get resource bonuses and made it so. But if this works, good. Can't wait!
Reply #36 Top
So... if I understand it - the *player* is "cheating" (i.e. getting more money than the AIs) at any level below intelligent? And also that you are unaware of players beating the game at any higher levels. I hope us "cheaters" have strong egos.

In any case I would (without even having played the game before) also appreciate the splitting of the "resource modifier" and the "intelligence level" for the AIs.

Why? Not to comment on my own shortcomings (too much), but I am very mediocre player who could certainly use some serious resource advantages. I would enjoy playing against the smarter AIs while using a resource penalty to compensate for my own shortcomings. Talk about ego. Not to mention that I’d love to see the “…wittier comments from the AI…” – but am unlikely to see them any other way.

My initial preference therefore is playing against that smartest AI, but to hamper them with some extreme resource penalties. My though is also that this will "ramp upwards" to harder difficulties should the need ever arrive.

Thank you for your consideration - and for what looks to be a great game. - Don
Reply #37 Top
I'd rather play against the AI that's as inept as me and having the same resources as me, personally. Then it would really feel like multiplayer. "A 50 ship fleet, eh? Not a threat, he's just protecting me, yanno." *grin*
Reply #38 Top
re: "AI that's as inept as me and having the same resources"

It takes all kinds I suppose. It dosen't sound like that's an option for me though.

If I "dumb" down the AI to my level - then I'm penalizing their production as well (as production is penalized for the AI at levels below "intelligent" - the 3rd from hardest setting. And I doubt that "intelligent" is my playing level.

Let me ask you this... is there any disadvantage to having a "split" difficulty system. Options are good.

Thanks


Reply #39 Top
I'm liking a split system, but I'd like to try out this system first.
Reply #40 Top
I'd like to spend more time with the current system before splitting it. While options are good, complexity isn't always.
Reply #41 Top
Brad,
I have certainly defeated the AI on tiny galaxies with rare planets, all AI at Genius level. Here you have the distinct advantage of knowing that most empires will not find any new planets so you focus on researching transports and immediately go conquer the minor planets. Gives you a 3 to 1 advantage and a chance to win! Enjoyable game setting as the AI still wins 1 in 2 games.

Paul.
Reply #42 Top
Soliair, when was this? There were 0 games submitted to the metaverse during beta 5 or later where someone won with all AIs set to incredible.

But on genius level (one level below) I could see that, I haven't looked for that but a top player like you (you're ranked 9th) should be able to occasionally win at genius level in the right circumstances. So that's definitely good news.

~SDC~
Reply #43 Top
Brad,
could you check my Metaverse submission?
You should find my victory with all AI set to genius, random alignement, Huge and occasional.
I was neutral/good & populist.
Turning point was my victory against Drengins.
Then I managed to join the "all against arceans" war and reaped some benefits.
Altarians were the most powerfull but I got in alliance with the YOR that were also allied with them.
As I was developing Altarians declared war but the Yor came to my side. Altarians economy was crippled, we had similar battleships and after a while I deleloped Rangers, Avatars and Overlord.
My first Overlord crippled an incredible number of battleships. Also I never had to resort to using my Terror Star or my most powerfull ship USS Hero. It had something like 80+ in attack, 250 in defense and 350+ hit points (I could be wrong by understating...).
Wiped out Altarians near me and agreed on peace for 2-3 planets.
The Yor continued the war and I had to help them after some 20-30 turns. Not really needed. After some 50 more turns I was able to buy all Altarians planets for techs (is that the way the AI surrends? ;) ). Won the game beeing left just The Yor and me in alliance. BTW I had influence on more than 2/3 of sectors but didn't win on that... Why?
If needed I've saved the game near the end.
Anyway most time the end winner is the AI and this is good to challange.
Five stars for the game. Addictive.
Reply #44 Top
BTW, the Metaverse submission summary was someway wrong.
It said cakewalk and smart AIs but I've double checked and it was all genius.
Anyone else had similar anomalies?
Reply #46 Top
Speaking of the metaverse, were the metaverse scores going to get purged before the release date?

~SDC~
Reply #48 Top
sorry Brad,
I only submit the very occasional game to the metaverse. Will submit the next genius win. It does depend on starting conditions though. Close the the 2 minors and the game's usually in the bag. A few class 14 planets and you win for sure.

Paul.
Reply #49 Top
How small a galaxy you playing on?

~SDC~
Reply #50 Top
I've played a few games where I forgot the AI's intelligence rating. Where this info is found during a game?