Does Fear Give Us The Right To Be Racist?

from JoeUser Forums

I remember when the London Bombings happened, a friend of mine got on a bus a few days later. Looking at her you would presume she is Muslim, even though in fact she is mixed race. She had just finished work and was on her way to the gym. She had her gym bag with her. Not a suspect looking bag or anything. She said she got so many odd looks off people, and she had no idea why. People were looking at her suspiciously, and watching her every move. She really didn't have a clue why. It was only afterwards, when she thought about it, she realised what it was about. People were suspicious of her, and her bag, and what she had in it. She fully understood, and wasn't offended at all. She even commented that in the same situation, she might of done the same thing. People were scared, and paranoid, and worried about their safety. So fair play to them.

The same thing as happened again. Two young Muslim men were kicked off a flight here, because other passengers feared they were suicide bombers. They had flown to Malaga for the day from Manchester, to check out a place they were going to on holiday later in the year. They were chatting to each other in Urdu. Six travellers refused to board, and in the end they were asked to leave by the captain. The passengers were suspicious because they had only visited the place for the day. They were quizzed and released without charge. And why did they go through all this? Well that's because of the paranoid state the world is in at the moment, and it would seem that Muslims are getting the raw end of the deal.

Just because we are scared, and we have suffered, does that mean we now have the right to judge people on the way they look, and the colour of their skin? Every Muslim we now see, are we to be scared of, and wonder in the back of our minds if they are a suicide bomber? We can't live our lives that way, it isn't fair to anyone. Lots of Muslims are just as worried as the rest of us, they are in the same position we are, and they don't need situations like that happening to them. That isn't going to do anyone any favours. More and more Muslims are turning to extreme measures to get their points heard, and situations like that are only gong to give them even more ammunition against us. Just because of what's happened, that doesn't give us the right to be racist.
12,496 views 51 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
No.

Nothing gives us the right to be racist.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Profiling is not racist.  It is a sad fact that fear can turn to it. 

But when you think about it, the police profile all the time.  If they get an APB on a "Suspected Mugger, White, 6'2, Male", they would be stupid to stop women, or blacks in trying to locate the mugger.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree with Stutefish.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Whether we like it or not Sally, fear does give us that right. The same fear that will make an old lady clutch at her bag if she sees a tall black man approaching her on the same side of the road. The same fear that will make a shop keeper alert if a group of boisterous boys come in to his shop. The same fear that will make me feel apprehensive when I'm walking alone at night and there's a group of teens approaching me. It's a natural gut reaction most people will have. There' s nothing they can do about it, it's as Doc said, a sad fact, but it's the truth.


Of course there are people who will use fear, and in my opinion, their ignorance as an excuse to be stupid and be unjust in the way they treat someone who is not of their race. Most times times there would be no good logical reason for someone to react that way just because a person has a different skin color. I can understand a person reacting when they've had a bad experience at the hands of someone from another race, but not when there's no reason for it. Some people just love to hate, that's their total existence.


However, and there is an however, in the case of the people who are Muslims, some people's reaction to them can't be blame. Remember, the ones who did what they did on September 11, lived amongst us, carried on on a daily basis, while plotting their evil deeds. These same people who no one questioned or paid attention to because they passed the color barrier, even though they were Muslims. These monsters committed an act that changed our world as we know it. And they continue to do it again, and again, and again. And they will keep on doing these evil acts and keep on trying because they feel we're not fit to live or walk in their shoes. You get what I'm saying Sally?

So why shouldn't the people on that plane react the way they did? I can't blame them really, it's a sad state of affairs, but in a case like that, there is reason for the fear and it's justified.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't believe so, however, racism does give us the right to fear. (Please excuse the platitude.)
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Congrats on the Feature!  But let me make it clear that nothing justifies racism.  And I dont think that is what you are describing here.  Profiling, yes.  But that is not racism.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Profiling, yes. But that is not racism.


I agree. Profiling is being suspicious of certain people because there's good logic or a reason behind it. See a sweaty guy on a plane with a suitcase clutched tightly to him? A bunch of rambunctious misfits roaming the streets at night? Someone that follows you no matter where you turn? Being suspicious of these people is profiling, they are acting in a way that causes you to think...hmm, uh oh, I could be in trouble.

Racism is wrong...and that's characterized by hating or being suspicious of an entire group of people for no good reason other than what you've heard or what you've been taught.

I know you knew all that, Doc...I just felt like clarifying for everyone else.

~Zoo
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

know you knew all that, Doc...I just felt like clarifying for everyone else

Thanks.  Miami got a good student this fall!

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks. Miami got a good student this fall!


Heh, thanks for that. I hope so, this chem class is nuts...he's got us working like dogs on the first day. I'm not bad at chemistry, but this work load is huge...and I still need to get a book for BMZ(botany, microbiology, zoology introduction) and that's got me a tad worried. They don't have the stupid thing in stock, so I might have to go into town tomorrow to check those bookstores which means lots of walking for me. bleh

~Zoo
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

They don't have the stupid thing in stock, so I might have to go into town tomorrow to check those bookstores which means lots of walking for me

Oxford is not that big!  You can do it in a few minutes.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Oxford is not that big! You can do it in a few minutes


I know, I just don't like walking too much...especially when it's 90 degrees outside.

~Zoo
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
If this is the event I think you are talking about...I read the men were Asian...
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
UBoB - good point.
racism does give us the right to fear

The racism - the discrimination - the prejudice - is direct towards: non-islamic people and the "not correct" type of Islamic people.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's not racism. It's prejudice.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Suspicion and caution should not be confused with fear.

It's totally natural, (IMHO), to be suspicious of wrong doers that meet a certain criteria, and to be cautious of being near them.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
You know, I think this was an over-reaction on part of the Captain of the plane. Kicking these guys off indicates to me he didn't trust what they had to say, their reasons for travel etc. This sort of paranoia doesn't serve any positive purpose. I believe, if anything, this creates animosity in people where none previously existed.

I equate it to a Captain kicking off a couple of Irish people because he thinks they might be IRA.

In answer to your heading question, I say no. There is no excuse for racism, as far as I'm concerned.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
View this CNN report in which Lou Dobbs assails the government for the lies of the official story of what happened.
www.spikedhumor.com/articles/47270/Lou_Dobbs_CNN_Report_About_9_11_Investigation_Mistakes.html
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
you would presume she is Muslim, even though in fact she is mixed race.


muslim is notta race. adherents of islam (which literally means 'submit to god') describe themselves and are described as muslims ('ones who submit to god').

muslims include people of all races who profess the tenets of islam.

it's more than a bit ironic malcom x, who came to islam by way of the 'nation of islam' (members of which are commonly referred to as black muslims even tho they're not accepted as true muslims by most traditional islamic sects), was america's most outspoken black separatist until he made the hajj (a pilgrimage to mecca--one of the obligations required of muslims). after returning to the states, malcolm gave an amazing speech about how the hajj had changed him in which he said:

"In the past, yes, I have made sweeping indictments of all white people. I will never be guilty of that again — as I know now that some white people are truly sincere, that some truly are capable of being brotherly toward a black man. The true Islam has shown me that a blanket indictment of all white people is as wrong as when whites make blanket indictments against blacks.

Since I learned the truth in Mecca my dearest friends have come to include all kinds — some Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, agnostics, and even atheists! I have friends who are called capitalists, socialists, and communists! Some of my friends are moderates, conservatives, extremists — some are even Uncle Toms! My friends today are black, brown, red, yellow, and white!

While in Mecca, for the first time in my life, I could call a man with blond hair and blue eyes my brother."
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
in other words, perhaps you title shoulda been" 'does fear justify jumping to conclusions about people who don't appear to be of northern european descent?'

most of your respondents seem to believe it does and will continue to do so until the day the terrorists turn out to be blue-eyed blondes, green-eyed redheads with alabaster skin or--despite this being beyond the realm of possibility of course--one of those frail elderly women in whom they invest so much faith and trust.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
It\'s amazing how often i hear \"those stupid [insert foreign people], why dont they fix their country.\" The soldier in iraq who raped and murdered the 14 year old girl and killed her family, he tells someone \"all iraqi\'s are evil\". What he/they don\'t realize is how we\'ve kindled the problems in so many (most?) of the countries that have such corruption etc today..

It\'s another nice eye opener. So many people are dying at the hands of these corrupt people as a result of their greed for power and control. It\'s really sickening.

watch the PBS documentary here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJ5BQA3FIk&mode=related&search=
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
We can try and be very liberal, but the fact is that any muslim is now viewed as either a terrorist or someone having links with them,so its but natural for anyone to be a little guarded against them, for obviously no fault of theirs.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

Nothing gives us the right to be racist

I agree

But when you think about it, the police profile all the time. If they get an APB on a "Suspected Mugger, White, 6'2, Male", they would be stupid to stop women, or blacks in trying to locate the mugger.

Yes I guess there are times when we can't get away from such judgements.

Serenity - Thanks for the comment.  I agree with what you say, people will always be fearful of certain things, and be more aware I am guilty of it myself, but sometimes people do use it as away to take advantage and take things a little to far.

I don't believe so, however, racism does give us the right to fear. (Please excuse the platitude.)

Ahh very clever

Congrats on the Feature! But let me make it clear that nothing justifies racism. And I dont think that is what you are describing here. Profiling, yes. But that is not racism.

Thanks Doc.  I think you have a point. 

Being suspicious of these people is profiling, they are acting in a way that causes you to think...hmm, uh oh, I could be in trouble.

The people on the plane I referred too weren't only suspicious though, they actually acted on it, and demanded action on their behalf.  I see what you're saying though, and I don't think that it was actual racism.  You and the Doc are so clever

If this is the event I think you are talking about...I read the men were Asian...

You are correct.  They were still judged, because some people don't think about it.

 

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

It's not racism. It's prejudice.

Fair point.

It's totally natural, (IMHO), to be suspicious of wrong doers that meet a certain criteria, and to be cautious of being near them.

Yes I know, I just worry that we are taking it a little far.

I think this was an over-reaction on part of the Captain of the plane. Kicking these guys off indicates to me he didn't trust what they had to say, their reasons for travel etc. This sort of paranoia doesn't serve any positive purpose. I believe, if anything, this creates animosity in people where none previously existed.

Well said Maso

LW - You raise a very good point, and I agree that people will be aware of things, and looking after their own safety.  I just worry that it may be going a little to far.  If little things like this can happen, what is going to happen in the future?  Will they esculate?  Will they alienate people even more?  I don't think that is going to solve any of the problems we face at the moment.

Btw, sally, studies have shown that over 35% of British muslims sympathize with extremists, so know that at least one in three that you encounter there would just as soon see you dead. Is it racist to face facts?

I watched a television show recently that covered this topic and I was amazed at figures like that, and I realised that we are in a situation where we have to realise that people think like this.  I do understand the thinking of people on that plane.

most of your respondents seem to believe it does and will continue to do so until the day the terrorists turn out to be blue-eyed blondes, green-eyed redheads with alabaster skin or--despite this being beyond the realm of possibility of course--one of those frail elderly women in whom they invest so much faith and trust.

King, I really think you're wicked.  I've missed you around.  I realise until people can shake these thoughts and feelings off not alot is going to change.  People have these judgements in their heads, and  nothing is going to change them.  Which is unfortunate, but that's position we have found ourselves in.

We can try and be very liberal, but the fact is that any muslim is now viewed as either a terrorist or someone having links with them,so its but natural for anyone to be a little guarded against them, for obviously no fault of theirs.

You are right.  Agreed.

Thanks for all the comments x

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
What might mitigate some of the irrational fear of Muslims would be for the VAST majority of them, who do not wish harm on anyone, to rise up and voice their outrage with what the fundamentalists are doing.

Judgement SHOULD be based on the character of another- it's just hard to assess that quickly in a stranger.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
What is wrong with using steroetypes to try to fight terrorism is this:

1) Terrorist will just hire someone who doesn't 'LOOK' Muslim, eastern, or whatever. And if you don't think someone will do it for the money, you are sadly mistaken.

2) You have just now alienated every person in the very culture you need help from to stop the terroris. Ask any police officer where most arrests and crime stopping comes from and they ill say tips from the community.

3) You have now helped the terrorist to enlist more people to help them due to the alienation.


Profiling is fine when done with some tactful way. You know who your looking for and how they 'fit' the description, but be careful and do not pigoen hole everyone into that profile because they look a specific way.