We Were Duped

from JoeUser Forums

When news footage told the story of the shocking death of JonBenet Ramsey, we wanted to believe, in our perverted sickness, that the fine trimmed lawn and expensive furnishings of the Ramsey held a deep, dark secret; that the Ramseys were TOO perfect, and that that "perfection" had to cover an underlying sickness that led them to do the unthinkable.

Given the recent turn of events, it appears that we were duped. More to the point, we ALLOWED ourselves to be duped, because the fiction we created justified the Marxist hatred of the upper classes that seems to drive the thinking of America's underclass far too often. We allowed ourselves to be duped, because ultimately, something within us wants to sabotage the successes of the rich and famous, because in our work-a-day world, we somehow don't perceive themselves to have "earned" their money and their status.

And the media fed on that. They fed us every bit of information that pointed to the Ramseys as the cuplrits, and excluded information that would point in any other directions. They scoffed at the Ramseys, even as Patsy Ramsey was, unknownst to many of us, beginning a fight for her life that she would lose before their names would be cleared in the all important court of public opinion. Because stress is an all important factor in healing, it would not be illogical to conclude that our premature, extrajudicial judgment may have indeed ultimately cost Mrs. Ramsey her life.

The capture of the suspect in JonBenet Ramsey's murder may indeed say more about US than it does about him. We tried, convicted, and treated as pariahs a family that did not earn our scorn, but rather, deserved our sympathies. God bless those people that stood by the Ramseys and refused to believe the worst about them. Shame on the rest of us who fell into a trap set by our own minds.

For my own part, I am deeply sorry about my own premature judgment. I, for one, hope to use this as an object lesson against making such a horrible mistake in the future.

4,855 views 37 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
The human race has such a dark side!
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I was wrong too in thinking that they MUST have known something. Not because I thought they were upperclass or anything like that but because it's their child, it happened in their home, how could they not know? (I know I was wrong in thinking this way but it seemed too much at the time0

I'm sorry I thought that way. I was so sorry to hear about the passing of the mom, I can't imagine how it was for her, I can't since I've never been through anything like that.

I really hope that this guy is the one that did it, just so that this case can finally be put to rest.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lets wait and see if this guy really did do it and is not just some whacko that knows a few extra details. His ex-wife is swearing he was in another State that day.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

As Adnauseum wrote, without the big news, now we get the small news, and this is being played up all over the media.  To the point that Fox had not one, but 2 lead stories on it this morning.

But to get to your article, a couple of points.  First, the 'confession' may be falling apart as the ex-wife of Karr says he was in Alabama at the time.  And a talking head, probably his defense weasel, has said the only reason for his admission is to get out of Thai jails..  I guess we will learn more in the days to come.

Second, you are entirely correct about the media.  We were spoon fed a DA's case against the Ramseys.  And while I abhor what the Ramseys did to that poor little girl, making her a model is not taking her life.  Having been spoon fed the DAs case, with no real defense case presented at all, I started asking myself - why?  Why if this case is so open and shut were the Ramseys never indicted?

And the only conclusion I could come up with was that there was not enough evidence for a conviction, or too much of it was not ironclad.  And given the fact that they looked so guilty to the press, I long ago stopped thinking they had done it.  I may yet be wrong, but at least I (in my cynicism I guess) have long taken to looking at the Media's "proof" with a great deal of disbelief.

But I also know that most people, including most Americans, swallow the media line with no critical thought as to what they are swallowing, so you are right.  Shame on us.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
But to get to your article, a couple of points. First, the 'confession' may be falling apart as the ex-wife of Karr says he was in Alabama at the time. And a talking head, probably his defense weasel, has said the only reason for his admission is to get out of Thai jails.. I guess we will learn more in the days to come.


The odd detail about this, though, is his profession of "love" for JonBenet. That's a detail that wouldn't be needed to be liberated from the jail cells. While it is still possible that this man may be innocent, he has one thing against him that John and Patsy Ramsey NEVER had: a confession. He could have confessed to 1,000 lesser crimes that would have netted him extradition; why this one?

He's confessed, and HE hasn't recanted his confession. That's a noteworthy part of this. And if he wrote letters to Patsy Ramsey, as the story has it, why would he do so to "set up" his attempt to free himself from a Thai jail some time later? That doesn't make sense, Dr. Guy.

Odd, isn't it, that we're not willing to extricate ourselves from the belief that the Ramseys were lying when they: never confessed, never had a shred of DNA evidence to indicate culpability, and passed a polygraph test, and we are entirely willing to believe this man concocted a wild story to get out of a Thai jail to return to the US for probable execution when there is no evidence to support it?

My open apology to Mr. Ramsey stands, no matter what the outcome.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
They fed us every bit of information that pointed to the Ramseys as the cuplrits, and excluded information that would point in any other directions.


Maybe because the Boulder police refused to consider anyone else?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

That doesn't make sense, Dr. Guy.

A lot of things do not make sense.  And if I was in your shoes, I would not be retracting the apology either.  But as I said, I long ago realized that they were at the least not guilty (Trial first), and at best, probably innocent.  of the Murder.  I still think they deprived that little girl of at least a few years of being a child.  Karr may vey well have deprive her of the rest.  We will see, but I will take what I read in the media with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

Maybe because the Boulder police refused to consider anyone else?

But then I guess we have forgotten that the press is supposed to dig out the news, not regurgitate one sides talking points.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
But then I guess we have forgotten that the press is supposed to dig out the news, not regurgitate one sides talking points.


And yet there are supposedly some details the public still doesn't know.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

And yet there are supposedly some details the public still doesn't know.

Which is as it should be. Originally, they said Karr knew some things not released to the public.  Now, that has gotten buried by his ex wife.  WHich I will not put it past her to be covering for him because of the kids. As I said originally, we shall see over the next few weeks.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
the fiction we created justified the Marxist hatred of the upper classes that seems to drive the thinking of America's underclass far too often.


whatcha mean "we" whiteman?

seems to me you're way overestimating our collective national talent; even including professionals, i don't believe our entire population can boast more than a few dozen minds capable of crafting fiction equivalent to such bizarrely esoteric reality.

it wasn't the media but boulder pd that initiated what would become this moronic convergence by inexplicably failing to locate the little girl's body in her own house--a house they'd presumably secured and fully searched during the several hours they'd been on the scene.

the real dupes are boulder's taxpayers.

it seems to me (with all due respect) suggesting we've all been blinded by marxism says much more about you than anyone else.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
based on what i've heard and seen over the past two days, the duping continues with no end in sight.

i'd almost forgotten what i felt after seeing ruby shoot oswald.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
The guy is a kook. I'll place my bet on this going nowhere. There's any number of people who step up and take responsibility for infamous crimes. This looks like a guy with a penchant for little kids who was so enamored with the Ramsey crime that he's willing to go down with it. One report also stated that he told police that he drugged her, and the autopsy showed nothing of the sort.

There are a LOT of funny problems with the idea that this guy just broke in and killed her. You forget that it is very, very possible, even if he killed her, that the parents were at the very least culpable, if not party to the crime. You might want to wait before handing out the shame and blessings, lest you do EXACTLY what you are condemning.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Despite the years I remember EXACTLY why I detested her parents....it was all the pictures of this little girl being shown in adult make-up for beauty pagents.



Gideon, if I recall correctly, you have children. How would feel about doing that with your kids? I don't know if the Ramseys were in anyway responsible for her tragic death, but I am not nominating them for Parents of the Year.

Based on yesterday's news, I agree with BakerStreet. There is evidence of his being in Atlanta at about the same time as the Ramseys, but none placing him in Boulder...at least not yet. To this point, what we have is a nut and a confession.

Read some of the history of the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, a sensational crime at the time. People were "confessing" to it for years.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
I, for one, find the entire child pageant idea rather ... distasteful. I know my little girl is going to grow up, soon enough. I'd rather keep her sweet and innocent as long as I can. For her sake, if not the sake of my sanity.

But, I've been accused of being a little over protective where my kids are concerned.

*wanders off to get his shotgun, cleaning supplies, hunting knife and whetstone and oil* I'll be out on the front porch, if ya need me.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

*wanders off to get his shotgun, cleaning supplies, hunting knife and whetstone and oil* I'll be out on the front porch, if ya need me.

Sounds like someone is getting ready for the dating years.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I didn't really trust that he was telling the truth when this first came out...give me hard, cold facts, then maybe I will.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sounds like someone is getting ready for the dating years.

Most definitely. The knife and shotgun are for if the poor schmuck survives her three (very protective) older brothers.

To actually say something on topic (for a change) - The gentleman in question is just a little creepy. Whether or not his confession is a ruse to get out of Thailand or not, is still open for debate. I hope and pray that it's true, and they can close out this case. Even if it's too late for Patsy Ramsey.

Given all of that, I have to wonder what level of complicity the parents had in this. I know that my wife and I are extremely sensitive to the sounds of the house while sleeping (my wife moreso than me). If one of the kids wakes up to get a glass of water, one of us is awake and listening to the sounds. Sometimes both. I understand a big house, in a comfortable neighbourhood lends itself to a feeling of security, but what parent of small children isn't always alert for something that migh injure them?
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul of the Thai immigration police changed some details Friday of the account he had given of what Karr told investigators. In a telephone interview Thursday with The Associated Press, Suwat quoted Karr as saying he had sexually assaulted the girl and given her drugs. He also told reporters before a news conference Thursday that Karr had claimed to have picked up JonBenet at her school.

On Friday, Suwat confirmed to the AP his account of the sexual assault. But asked Friday if Karr gave the girl drugs, Suwat said the suspect described the encounter with JonBenet Ramsey as "a blur."

"It may have been drugs, or it may have been something else because (Karr said) it was a blur, blur," Suwat said. Suwat also said Friday that his statement about the girl being picked from school was based on a documentary he had seen and not the interrogation. ( Link )"

I have a feeling you're being duped right now. I've spoken at length with someone from Thailand a few years back online. If you look into their legal and political system there, where it is a crime to speak unfavorably about the king but kiddie prostitution is a winked-at national industry, you might question where this thai cop's interest lies.

The conduit for this guy coming in and confessing was also the journalist who authored all the pro-Ramsey documentaries. They have DNA if I am not mistaken. I hope whoever does the testing is more reliable than the 'hanging scientists' I've seen described lately on TV who basically nod for hire.

P.S. Does anyone else wonder how he's going to explain that sneaking into a house at night, raping a little girl, then strangling a her and bashing her head in is an "accident"? I wonder how many of the "details" that weren't released to the public were known by this documentary reporter...

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I hope he did it, just so this can all finally be put to bed.

As for beauty pageant....um, that is a southern thing. My husband's town has them starting with girls three years old. They are primped and made up and look a lot like JonBenet.

I went to my niece's once. It's a joke. Basically they are teaching these girls that how they look determines their worth. And God forbid if they become teens and get zits, well then they will be worthless!

My ex-sis in law is a product of beauty pageants. She never EVER adjusted to life after going from a BEAUTIFUL child to an ordinary looking teen with acne, to an average looking adult. To this day she seeks the kind of strokes she got as a child for beauty....and will do ANYTHING for anyone who will give her those strokes....sad.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
He also told reporters before a news conference Thursday that Karr had claimed to have picked up JonBenet at her school.


Picked her up at school during Christmas holidays?
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

Gideon, if I recall correctly, you have children. How would feel about doing that with your kids? I don't know if the Ramseys were in anyway responsible for her tragic death, but I am not nominating them for Parents of the Year.

I would never do that with my kids, Larry. But the longer I live, the more I'm realizing my lifestyle is SERIOUSLY at odds with and out of step with the rest of America. My girls don't play with Barbie dolls, either.

I don't condone the whole child beauty pageant circuit, but the Ramseys aren't much different than the other families that participated.

Yeah, it does appear the guy's a kook. Basically, he seems to be a "murder groupie" who got  lot of details. But in the details of his "confession", the facts about the mismatched DNA, etc, have been more prominently mentioned than they were before.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
it seems to me (with all due respect) suggesting we've all been blinded by marxism says much more about you than anyone else.


kingbee,

I grew up among the dirt poor...did you?

I grew up with a father who DAILY preached how EVIL the rich were, who warned us against dating the "rich bitches", who taught us that all of the wealthy in America had gained their fortunes by illegitimate means...and most of my friends were raised to that same bias.

I resent my father for it; for many years in my adult life, I actually TRIED to avoid success...because if I was successful, it meant I was one of THEM. And, as I said before, I wasn't raised in a vaccuum; virtually all of my friends were of the same mindset.

I can say absolutely, unequivocably, that my bias against the wealthy and absolute conviction that their wealth was an indication of their immorality biased my opinion immediately against the Ramseys. And I know of not a few others who felt the same way.

Was it part of a larger trend? Who can say? But it's certainly a question worth asking!
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
"I can say absolutely, unequivocably, that my bias against the wealthy and absolute conviction that their wealth was an indication of their immorality biased my opinion immediately against the Ramseys. And I know of not a few others who felt the same way."

I grew up "poor" and spent my life around wealthy people. Me, I despise people who dress their kids up like whores and strut them for entertainment. Whether or not they killed their daughter has nothing to do with the fact that they should be pariahs, in my opinion. You don't have to be marxist to hate people like that, do you?

I'm betting that there will be THOUSANDS of blogs deleted in the near future, all while people are claiming they hope they won't make the same mistake in the future, lol. It's all that "rush to judgement" stuff, you know. I wonder if this will be one of them...

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

I'm betting that there will be THOUSANDS of blogs deleted in the near future, all while people are claiming they hope they won't make the same mistake in the future, lol. It's all that "rush to judgement" stuff, you know. I wonder if this will be one of them...

I dont know, but I think the consensus here is that no one liked what the Ramseys did to their daughter.  Everything else is up for debate.

I will restate my belief.  The Ramseys did not do it. Did this clown?  We will see.