A True Story

Wonderful post KFC!  thank you for sharing it with us

She was found alive. At this point I don't remember if she said how the girl fared, only that she was found alive.

This girl was hit from the side. It was a side impact to the driver's door and she was driving. She died instantly.

In my opinion, death is a release, and the second option would be the nicer option. KFC, as you perceived the second girl, who died, as being "without God”, do you believe she was banished to hellfire, and is now experiencing pain and torment forever? If so, why would God do such a thing? Especially considering the Biblical principle that God chooses who becomes Christian and who doesn’t? If God is merciful and kind, wouldn’t it have been in God’s interests, and the girl’s, to have opened her mind to the Truth of God sometime in her life before she died, so she could be redeemed and live in peace with God forever?

In my opinion, from the soul’s reckoning the tragedy lies in being in these physical bodies, living in this harsh world, far away from Home. I think it’s a good job that God has veiled our brain-minds from full knowledge of life on the Other Side, otherwise we’d all be jumping off bridges by now in an attempt to get back Home. (There’s a higher purpose for these 'veils', for sure.)

But every moment we’re down here on earth indicates that we have more to learn, and that there’s more room for spiritual growth - otherwise we wouldn’t be here. Maybe the girl who died had learned all she had to learn in this particular life, and had garnered all the wisdom and strength she needed? In which case, she might have been more advanced than the girl who survived.

First off Andy, we don't know what opportunities this girl had been given before she died. She wasn not the main part of the story here. Again, we do not know the whys of God. The bible is clear that we are without excuse. We are not going to say to him someday...."you never told me." Even if we do not hear the word of God ever in our lifetime, he says nature itself is enough to point to Him as creator God.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." Rom 1:18-20

But every moment we’re down here on earth indicates that we have more to learn, and that there’s more room for spiritual growth - otherwise we wouldn’t be here

yes I agree. We all have a built in clock that someday just stops. For some it's much longer than others. Again, we don't know why some are here longer than others. But we do know that God has a plan and he's working it out and nothing dies without his knowledge of it.

Do you believe we all go to the same place Andy? Do you believe we all go to a blissful state of heaven? Because that's how I take you as saying. Do you believe that if someone denounces God as this girl that she should be in heaven? Would you be as welccoming to someone into your home that has no desire to be there and has no respect or affection for you?

it all comes down to God is God. God is in control and he is the creator. Who am I to tell him that he's not doing things right? That's what Job figured out in the end. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the world Job?"

I wouldn't be where I am today without the prayers of three specific women. My grandma, my mom, and my cousin.

I have learned Christians can hear the same story and walk away with different messages from God.

While you heard the story and got the message "God is in control." I didn't get that same message, though I can see where you did.

To me it spoke more to the urgency of His message....to my responsibilities as a parent in Christ.

I think most kids who grow up in a Christian home and finally get out on their own...go through a period of questioning and walking away. They are no longer under the umbrella of their parent's faith so to speak. But I do believe if they are brought up in the faith and embraced it growing up, they eventually will make their way back to it.

I don't think the Christian girl was spared because she is a Christian though. I believe Christ holds the keys to life and death and when it is our time, it is our time....faith or no. Everyone dies. (Well sept Enoch! )Lucky duck.

(Well sept Enoch! )

Don't forget Elijah now too.

grandma, my mom, and my cousin

You have some really good family behind you dude!! You are blessed.

I don't think the Christian girl was spared because she is a Christian though

well this would come under the "why" Why was she spared? We don't know why. I just thought it was very interesting how this all played out as did the lady who told me this story. It was a bit bizzare really. The whole thing. Her telling me came totally out of the blue. What was even more bizarre was the story that followed this one months later.

Don't forget Elijah now too.

ya, he got the royal treatment.....chariot and everything

This girl was hit from the side. It was a side impact to the driver's door and she was driving. She died instantly. There was no damage to the car, nothing to speak of anyway. But the impact was such that it took her life

Actually, the outcome of this accident is not at all surprising. It is called a "T-Bone", and because of the physiological effects it has on the body, it can be much more damaging than many other types of collision. It is not uncommon for the aortic arch to burst and the patient to die from internal bleeding.

But, to the point, I found something disturbing about this piece, KFC. It almost seemed as if the individuals involved were gloating over the fact that this woman didn't know Jesus, and I find that disturbing for anyone who considers themselves remotely evangelical. I've read enough of your pieces to know you have a sincere heart, but if I read these things and they disturb me, what effect do they have on those that don't know Christ? I could answer your question by pointing out replies and comments from some of JU's nonChristian bloggers, but that wouldn't be essential. I know you've seen them.

I think that what you have to say is worthwhile, but it could reach a wider audience if you chose some of your words more carefully. It does you no good to preach to the converted; that's not likely to win souls to Christ.

Do you believe we all go to the same place Andy? Do you believe we all go to a blissful state of heaven? Because that's how I take you as saying. Do you believe that if someone denounces God as this girl that she should be in heaven?

I believe that after death, we all go to the same place ‘geographically’, i.e. to the afterlife, the Spirit world. However, I believe that we will not all go to the same place spiritually, or mentally.

E.g. if a godly man died, the amount of spiritual wealth accumulated would cause his inner experience to be one of profound joy, positivity, and peace. He would be able to look back on his life on earth and see that he made such a positive impact on others’ lives, that great positive rewards can now be reaped, primarily in the form of soul stature and spiritual riches, leading to a more fulfilling life in Heaven, the real world, eternal.

If an evil man died, however, then due to the laws of ‘reap what you sow’ – or karma - his inner experience would be one of hollowness, anguish and pain. As he looked back on his life on earth, with a new perspective and with the bigger picture now opened up to him, his soul would be burdened, his heart tormented, and his life in the Heavenly realm would be far from Heavenly. (For some souls, like murderers and paedophiles, one might even call it “hell”.) Hampered by a gnawing feeling of unfinished business, they would know there is still much work to be done, and much room for spiritual growth.

This model of the world is described in most books written by psychics, by the way. I personally adhere to it.

Even if we do not hear the word of God ever in our lifetime, he says nature itself is enough to point to Him as creator God

But doesn’t the Bible say that God chooses who becomes Christian in the first place? This implies that those who God doesn’t choose to be saved are pre-destined to perish in hellfire. This is the same behaviour as Hitler, for sure. He chooses certain people to be thrown into the ovens to experience pain and to perish. This, to me, runs contrary to common-sense-wisdom.

In my opinion, in order to gain a fuller picture of reality we can explore and merge certain insights from other world religions and spiritual teachings. The Holy Spirit can provide us with guidance and with a compass from within. I believe that we can afford some healthy breathing space from extreme Scriptural fundamentalism.

KFC, don’t you agree that if you had been born on the Eastern side of the planet, in a Tibetan province, for example, then you would now very probably be a Buddhist, or committed to the Tao Te Ching? Or if you had been born into a loving, Muslim household, you would probably now be preaching the Qur’an equally as fervently as you are now preaching the Bible? How open are we to reality and to how our cultures and our human habits really operate? I believe that the reason why people like yourself are so committed to God is because the Holy Spirit is working within you. I believe that the reason why people like yourself are so committed to the Bible is because you were born into a particular culture or part of the world.

But, to the point, I found something disturbing about this piece, KFC. It almost seemed as if the individuals involved were gloating over the fact that this woman didn't know Jesus

Oh no I didn't think that. I'm sorry it came across that way. I'm just relaying what a schoolgirl had to say. Her mom was in tears telling me this. I wouldn't go that far Gid. It was very sad. Jesus himself said that He is the way. This girl saw the wealth in that statement. It's not about material success and she understood this when she weighed what happened.

Actually, the outcome of this accident is not at all surprising. It is called a "T-Bone", and because of the physiological effects it has on the body, it can be much more damaging than many other types of collision. It is not uncommon for the aortic arch to burst and the patient to die from internal bleeding.

This is interesting. I didn't know this. A nurse told me that she may have broken her neck. I'm not in the medical field and I don't know enough of the accident to be sure. It did sound like it was quick. Most likely she didn't know it happened.

This model of the world is described in most books written by psychics, by the way. I personally adhere to it.

Thanks Andy for your viewpoint. We would have to disagree on this point but it's always interesting how others see the afterlife.

Or if you had been born into a loving, Muslim household, you would probably now be preaching the Qur’an equally as fervently as you are now preaching the Bible?

sort of like the Jews and the people groups all around them in the OT? That's how I would probably look at that situation. Check out the movie "The End of the Spear." It's a true story about 5 missionaries that went to an island inhabitated by "savages." The men were all killed for lack of understanding and the wives of these same men went back to this island and helped in the conversion of the whole island. God knows who his own are and he reaches them even in the most remote jungles of the Ecudor Basin. These wives were amazing in my book.

I have stayed out of this because while my end is kind of the same, the means is in no way similar.

The athiest. Did she live a good life and do good by others? If so, then she is very upset for she found out there is a god and he is loving.

Yes, awards and accolades in this life mean little in the end. Unless they are for the good of our fellow man. And then it does not matter your creed. A loving God is not going to consign a good and rightious person to hell because they did not know of Jesus.

A loving God is not going to consign a good and rightious person to hell because they did not know of Jesus.

I'm not understanding you Doc. Are you saying an atheist as long as they have enough good deeds gets into heaven? If you don't know Jesus you can still get into heaven? How does this jive with "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by me?" Are you saying there is another way?

If you don't know Jesus you can still get into heaven? How does this jive with "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by me?" Are you saying there is another way?

KFC, Christ is the only way to God because Christ is God.

Christ is the eternal Logos, which sees all and knows all. Christ is Spirit, One with God. All religions are in touch with the same God, (Christ), only from a different perspective and cultural context, whether they recognise Him as Jesus or not. (At least this is how I see it.)


To explain how this can be so, consider the following analogy:

Think of the solar system. The sun represents God, (i.e. Christ), and the planets represent the various world religions and spiritual traditions.

Each planet gets its light, heat and sustenance from the same Source - the Sun. Without the Sun, the planets could have no true light or life.

Whilst people on earth call the Sun “Christ”, people on Mars call the Sun “Allah”.

Now, one day, a Sun Beam (Jesus) came down from the Sun to earth and declared, “I am the way, the truth and the life, noone goes to the Sun but by me.” From then on, Earthlings believed that Christ is the only way to the Sun.

But later on, a Martian-Muslim landed on earth, and shared his view that the Sun is actually called “Allah”. Because the Martians had received no personal visitation from the Sun Beam, they believed that such a visitation was irrelevant, as it didn’t affect the fact that Allah provided their planet with life, sustenance and light.

Earthlings who weren’t aware of their place in the solar system (i.e. in the bigger picture) would argue with the Martians, calling them “wrong”. Martians who weren’t aware of their place in the bigger picture would call the Earthlings “wrong”.

But if they got together and communicated their views in a spirit of understanding and love, they might be able to see that they are both actually “right”.

... therefore, if each planet combined all other planet's views, their understanding would be expanded beyond their present small scope, and they'd learn a lot more about the nature of the bigger picture and their place in it.

#8 by Gideon MacLeish Sat, August 05, 2006 1:48 PM

#5 by Tova7 Fri, August 04, 2006 3:23 PM

I agree with and liked both Tova's and Gid's response. Not that the others weren't good, just that I like their way of what they had to say.

KFC, Christ is the only way to God because Christ is God.

Oh yes, I agree.

All religions are in touch with the same God, (Christ), only from a different perspective and cultural context, whether they recognise Him as Jesus or not. (At least this is how I see it.)

this is where we'd part company tho.

But if they got together and communicated their views in a spirit of understanding and love, they might be able to see that they are both actually “right”.

They can't both be right because there is too many contradictions. All religions cannot be true at the same time, because they teach many things completely opposite from one another. Now, they could all be wrong, but they can't all be right. The claims of one will exclude the other.

The Jesus of Islam was not the Son of God who died for the sins of the world. One religion is dependent on works to get salvation and another is dependent on grace alone (unmerited favor) for salvation.

It's very easy to see that we are dealing with different religious ideas that are not compatible with one another. It's when you get close to the central teachings the more apparent the differences become.

To: KFC

You don't mention gratitude. Aren't you grateful that this girl died so that you could have your 'faith' confirmed, and your brat of a boy be brought nearer to your 'Christ' (I see no resemblance between what you profess to worship and the Christ of the Gospels and never have)?

Your sanctimonious self-satisfaction continues to revolt me.

ya, I know you have made that quite clear all over the place. The only thing I'm curious about is why you read my blog if this is true? You do protest way too much. There's much more than meets the eye here.

To: KFC

The only thing I'm curious about is why you read my blog if this is true?

For the same reason people watch train wrecks or gawk at corpses on the freeway. What they see is horrible and revolting but they can't look away.

Reading your blog is like looking at some vile microbe through a microscope. At a certain point the grotesque and the deformed become fascinating because of their grotesque deformities. And despite being a gimp myself, and having associated with all manner of other gimps during my life, I've yet to meet anything as thoroughly deformed as you.

And I note that, yet again, you've failed to address what I said and instead imply that, really, I'm secretly fascinated by you because I can hear God in your words. Certainly I can hear God in your words; I can hear Its howling, outraged laughter.

I'm not even going to address you anymore EOIC. I'm tiring of your insults and badgering ways. If you want to engage in a good discussion, ok, but it seems as tho you have no interest in that so don't be surprised if I tend to ignore your comments from now on.

There's really nothing to discuss with you. I would like to ask you (in a nice way) to please not comment anymore on my threads unless you have something to add that is not insulting to me or anyone else. I'm ok with criticism. I'm not ok with downright insults, slander and lies.

'nuff said.

All religions cannot be true at the same time, because they teach many things completely opposite from one another. Now, they could all be wrong, but they can't all be right.

You’re turning a blind eye to the common ground though, KFC. This common ground is significant and deep, and to me far outweighs any contradictions.

The claims of one will exclude the other.

If we consider the greater common ground, then the claims of one doesn’t exclude the other. On the contrary, they illuminate each other, and we can begin to see how they can sit harmoniously together. I’ve described this common ground before, but I don’t mind discussing it again if you like.

One religion is dependent on works to get salvation and another is dependent on grace alone (unmerited favor) for salvation

The Qur’an teaches that “believers will be saved”, i.e. believers in God, who they call Allah. Considering the analogy about the planets in the Solar System, I can’t see a contradiction.

The Jesus of Islam was not the Son of God who died for the sins of the world.

I believe that each religion has jigsaw pieces, which make up the full picture, and we can share pieces of revelation from other religions in order to gain larger glimpses of the bigger picture.

Islam acknowledges the divine conception of Jesus, the virgin birth, and that God sent Jesus to earth for a sacred purpose. But Muslims don’t believe that Jesus was God. I believe that this particular jigsaw piece is held by Christianity. Remember that Islam doesn’t centre upon Jesus primarily, but rather centres primarily on God. From a Christian point of view, Christ is God. When religious people pray in the spirit of goodness, I believe we are all in touch with exactly the same Spirit, regardless of tradition or culture.

We can't escape the fact that the deeper commonality between Islam and Christianity is great, especially regarding theistic issues such as One Creator God, that Heaven awaits us beyond the veil of death, and the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden etc. (I described a particular jigsaw piece that Christians can take from Islam, regarding the story of Adam and Eve, in one of your previous threads, KFC. See post #11 in https://forums.joeuser.com/Forums.aspx?ForumID=65&AID=95466 )

It's when you get close to the central teachings the more apparent the differences become.

I think when we get too close to the details, to the coal face, we end up not seeing the wood for the trees, and we can miss the larger and deeper meanings disclosed in our religious revelations.

In my view, if we claim that all other religions are “wrong”, whilst our own religion is “right”, we begin to walk on irrational grounds in a spirit of close mindedness, especially considering the cultural bearings of our own personal religious beliefs.

"For the same reason people watch train wrecks or gawk at corpses on the freeway. What they see is horrible and revolting but they can't look away."

funny. i think alot of people feel the same way about you...

"you've failed to address what I said and instead imply that, really, I'm secretly fascinated by you because I can hear God in your words. "

I didn't get that sense at all. I think you're simply putting words in other people's mouths. That's really all you seem to do. You take what people say and twist it until it fits your own agenda, and proves your own point. You do the same thing you accuse others of doing. Personally, that "continues to revolt me".

Two years ago come November we were having problems with one boy. He was not on the same page as we were, and it was worrisome for us. We thought he was really not behaving in a good way, not how he was brought up to be. We saw him sliding away not only from us, but from the God that we loved and honored. He was showing us he did not feel the same way mostly with his actions and lifestyle. According to anyone else, they would say he was a great kid, a great success. We were more concerned with his heart than his worldly success. We wanted to be proud of him and what he was doing, but at that time he was breaking our heart.

Most kids would be sliding away, you sound over the top when it comes to pushing Christianity on him. God forbid you should let him develop some ideas of the world and that that is around him on his own, especially about Religion. If he really was interested in it he would come to you on this.

Based on this article I would say you are in a cult.