If this is a test, then I've failed.

from JoeUser Forums

I'm having a hard time dealing with my dad's death.

I'm finding that my personal philosophy regarding death and the afterlife is being challenged.  My faith - what little faith I had - is falling to pieces.  

See, everybody keeps talking about heaven and how he's in heaven now, fishing and walking.  Heck, even I said that right after he died.  But I don't believe that.  I wish I could; it'd make this a lot easier and much  less painful. 

I simply don't believe.  It's not because I haven't tried, I've tried and tried and tried to convince myself that there's a heaven where we will all meet again and get to do the things we loved to do on earth. I've tried to convince myself that the way to heaven is a belief on god and in christ.  I just CAN'T.  I DON'T believe, and I have some serious doubts that I ever will. 

Even my personal philosophy is being challenged.  I always thought that I'd feel his presence after he died.  In all the times I've sat with someone as they were dying, I've never once felt their soul leave their body.  I could SEE a distinct change in their body, but I've never felt it and I've always told myself that it was because I've never stuck around more than an hour or so after the death had occured and I wasn't even related to that person, so why would they want to make their presence known to me?  They'd have to reason to.  I haven't felt my dad's presence.  I've been on my knees in prayer more times than I care to think about in the past few days, asking god to please ease my pain, to give my some comfort and to let me know my dad's ok.

I've felt nothing.  Not a darn thing.  Which leads me to conclude that: a) god's pissed off at me and doesn't want to talk to me; b) god is either dead, not real and a figment of our imagination or c) we don't have souls and that this plane of existence is IT....that there's nothing else.  No afterlife.

Of course, I'm sure I'll be told that I'm not praying in the right way, that I'm doing something wrong.  I'm sorry, but any god who can ignore a person who's on her knees sobbing her heart out as she's asking for help because she didn't say the right prayer in the right way....well, I want nothing to do with a god who would do such a thing. 

I'm leaning towards b) and c), that's what's killing me.  The thought that I'm never going to see dad again and that this life we have here is all we have....well, that's hard to take.

My husband has made me an appointment to see a chaplain tomorrow.  I don't know how it's going to go.  He told that chapel staff that I'd need to see the less-religious guy because I'm liable to walk out on someone who tosses scripture at me and who tells me that I'm not saved and that's why god is ignoring me - and he's right.  That's exactly what I'll do.  I don't need that crap right now, I've got enough stress to be going on with.  I also don't need well-meaning but tactless christians spewing shite about how unless you're reborn you're never going to get to heaven as they point their gold and jewel encrusted fingers at me and drive away in their Lincoln Navigators.  Camels and needle-eyes comes to mind during those situations, and it's usually on the tip of my tongue - I just lack the balls to say it.

Dad's death has left a gaping hole in the fabric of my life.  I know that eventually that hole will be filled in and repaired- but as with any fabric, you'll be able to see where it's been repaired.  It'll leave a mark that'll always be there.  I am father-less, and it hurts.  I cannot even begin to explain how had it is......it's like a thousand broken hearts all at once.  It's crippling; it takes my breath away.  There's no medication for this, there aren't any painkillers or pills that I can take to make the pain any less.  The best I can do is not think about it too much, because thinking about it makes it hurt.  The thing is, I HAVE to think about it.  I can't bury my head in the sand and hope I can stay there until it's all over and the pain is gone away.  My mum needs me, and I need her.  I have to think about flowers for the service (the university declined to accept his body so he's getting his next-best wish and is being cremated), I have to think about his will and I know mum's going to ask me what I'd like to keep of his as a memento. I can't just ignore it; that's not going to do any good.  So, I guess I'll just have to find some way to deal with the hurt.

Someone told me that this is gods way of testing me.  If that's true, then I've failed. 

religion
1,658 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
All these questions you have posed have no easy answers. I want to tell you that God is looking out for you, I want to send a prayer your way, but I will not try to convince you about anything...you don't need that right now. What you need is love and support, which I hope your family continues to give you, and which I hope your friends and the JU community will offer you, me included. So, keep writing, keep venting, and rain down all the tears that you need to. You have not failed anything...you are a human with a broken heart. And hopefully that broken heart will mend little by little over time.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply By: InBloom

Ditto.

And the Chaplain, if he is as Dave specified, may be able to give you some additional insight.  He deals with this issue all the time, and is way more experienced in how to explain things.  I would not even try, except to say we are here for you.  Feeble as that is.

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I know mum's going to ask me what I'd like to keep of his as a memento

I hope you get an article of his clothing, like a shirt. I had my dad's shirt til it fell apart.

That you could wrap yourself up in.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am perplexed as to why some would demand it is a "test". It's pretty presumptuous to claim to know the mind of God. I can't say what it is, but I CAN say, definitively, that God understands the hurting and the grieving. At least if anything I believe about God is correct.

If you want some suggestions of Christian based books that might help, I would be willing to give them, dharma. But I won't offer them unsolicited. You know what you need to grieve, and I just want to let you know that I'm here if you need me in any way.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Also a favorite coffee cup of his, it's something his hands held and you could wrap your hands around the same cup he held..
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dharma you're raising many of the same questions I have raised along the way and it seems you've hit many of the same possible answers too. I don't think I could ever convince anyone that there is or isn't a God and an afterlife as I have my own questions too, but then again, perhaps there are some more answers to the questions you raised than simply (a), (b) or (c).

Perhaps there is a higher power and perhaps that power is hearing your prayers and pleas and not so much testing you as knowing that you do have the strength and fortitude to move on without your loved one. Perhaps your loved one was taken to make improvements in the afterlife for others, and as some have told you, perhaps your loved one is now enjoying that afterlife and helping to prepare a spot for you and the rest of your family to be welcomed to in time.

I wish I had a direct link to offer here, but the closest I can come is this: Brad Paisley - click there and find the video for When I Get Where I'm Going and watch/listen to it.

That song is what I think about when I think of my recently departed grandmother, and going back a bit further, my grandfathers. I've said before that I still miss my dad's father a lot (and miss my other grandfather and grandmother too!), and hardly a day does go by when I don't think about him. It tore me up inside to have seen him pass away so long ago (about 20 years ago now), but I did accept that he was in a better place, or at least that is what I wished to accept.

Dwelling on the loss won't change things, and won't bring back your loved ones. While you wish you could say more to them, do more with them, and have had more time with them, they do eventually die and things will be at least temporarily finished, hopefully to resume in the next life, or in the afterlife.

Perhaps your prayers and thoughts are being answered somewhat by the friends here that are showing support for you now, even as you have doubts about your faith. Perhaps your original answers are the only answers, but don't you hope or want to hope that this isn't all there is, and that eventually you will have a joyful reunion with those that left before you?

I do hope your pain is eased and that you can focus on the great times you had, and not think about missed opportunities or lost time. If you loved your father and he loved you then you didn't miss any opportunities, and you did make the best use of the time you could have had.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I know it's terrible difficult for you right now. I'm sorry you're in so much pain. It's going to be this way for you for a while. You're going to question everything and you're also going to be angry. I'm here to give my support emotionally if you need it.

Hugs to you Dharma.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
My beliefs are what most would consider to be on the outside. I don't know always that there is a God but I don't want to be wrong either. I think anyone that would tell you aren't finding comfort because you haven't found 'their' God is just a little too quick to judge. I found my God a few years ago. He doesn't ask that I attend church every Sunday to hear a message I find hypocritical. He simply asks that I treat people with kindness and compassion. I am not perfect but I do try and that seems to be good enough.

I hope that you find peace in this. You'll continue to be in my thoughts.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dharma.

First, I am sorry you are hurting so much.

That silence you are hearing, I am familiar with it as well.

No one whose ever called out to God for comfort for anything and gotten silence will understand. They will say "examine your life" "are you tithing" crap like that. While I do believe self examination is the first step, I rule it out for people who are calling out to God on a basic elemental...please just be here level.

I hope the chaplain you talk with has some silences under his belt so he can at least understand some of what you are going through.

There is no magic prayer. I got through it by an act of my will. I decided God is good and whether he answers me or not, He is still good and worthy of my worship. Not jumping when I call is one of those things I have to learn to live with. But that was my process...yours may be much different.

All that to say, I am praying for you Dharma. I thought about you on the way to the grocery store today and are keeping you in my thoughts.

Peace.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Like I've told you before- simply find comfort in the fact that he was here and was real and rejoice in the miracle that despite the trillion to one odds against, you DID know and experience him. And that, Karen, is something you don't have to take on faith at all.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

I love you Dharma, but your mourning and your dad's death are not "tests"... or at least pass/fail situations.  Your dad died.  You know as well as I that death is part of life.  He didn't die to make you (or anyone else) stronger/weaker, sadder/happier, or anything else.  He died because, well, that is how things work.

A wise man once said to me that you should never make important decisions at low points in your life.  Why?  Because that make that low point a permanent part of your life.  Right now you are hurting, hurting right down to your soul.  There is no reason to base your faith or belief system on your hurting and pain.  Second guessing  yourself and trying to make sense out of it all will only lead you to making huge decisions at a time when you should simply be mourning the death of your father.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
dharmagrl,

I am sorry for your loss. Life is here, on earth, with all the rest of us as we live. And we experience loss when someone dies, it hurts, and grieving is important.
Many Christians won't let you grieve because "heaven" exists. Unfortunatly the truth is that heaven is just a thought, an idea, or a comfort.

Chaplan's in some cases are good people to see. They understand loss, and if you see anyone, tell them how you feel. Let yourself heal.

dharmagrl, you can't "lose" faith. Faith is just belief. Believing something different isn't losing faith. We all have some just cause to believe something different, it takes honesty, and "doing the right thing" no matter the consequences takes real courage.

Good night, and good luck,
Fox