Does the AI scrap its own mining bases?

some reflections

from GalCiv2 Forums
one of the strategies I use to gain an edge is to station constructors near all the mining resources in my range. even if i didn't manage to grab them, the AI players go to war often enough that I can usually grab up a lot of the resources by mid game.

i could use this chance to politely gripe about how the AI would do better if it defended its bases more strongly. i think i'd rather use this as a chance to review the entire aspect of the game. but that's just me. i always have ideas and like making observations. i think the bonuses provided by the resources (not the bases, but the bonuses themselves) should be like trade resourses. you can share them for cash, give them as gifts or allied support, or you can chose not to. i'd really like to see time limits added to that aspect of diplomacy: "i'll lend you xintium hull plating and 15% of my military bonus for 24 weeks in exchange for..."

i'm posting this as "game talk" because i this isn't a bug, just a discussion about... well, GalCiv2.

observation 1: sometimes the resources are not evenly dispursed. i've played several games where the majority of the resources of a particular type are all concentrated in a particular area. in the most recent game, it was military resources. they were all concentrated in and around the arceans. they had 3 of 5 (thankfully, the other two were controlled by weaker races). i've also seen this happen with other resource types, and it also creates a very unablanced game when 1 player gets a majority of the influence resources early on.

observation 2: the arceans were becomming frighteningly powerful. they went to war with the drengin, who managed to blow up almost all of their mining bases. this was great for me, since i had a few constructors in the area. the arceans should have been able to rip through the drengin, but because they did not dedicate any of their military power to protecting the basis of their military power, they were cut down to appropriate size in short order. the starbase foritifcation tech line is relatively affordable. they had gained a military advantage over everyone. their resources could have been better spent fortifying these bases.

observation 3: neither the arceans nor the drengin seemed to care that i was there, waiting to snatch up the newly available resources. i can't remember who declared that war, but for the sake of arguments i'll say the drengin. it seems to me the drengin should have been pissed that i was trolling around waiting to steal their spoils of war (i feel they should have similar feelings when their victims surrender to me). the arceans should have been pissed too, seeing that i was exploiting their misfortune. it seems like that kind of behavior should make everyone a little ticked at me.

if the AI did more to protect its resources, i think it'd go a long way. it seems like better resource dispersion could be worked into the map generating codes. i wouldn't mind an option to exclude them from maps. it's not that i want to get rid of them; i want the option of getting rid of them without having to (re)write an entire custom map.

and i'll conclude with the requisite thanks for the work you've done so far. it really impresses me. i'm playing 1.2b. i was expecting to see the AI lose massive fleets of ships due to lack of defenses, but it seems you've all ready thought of that of course and tweaked the AI accordingly. it's a pretty obvious thing to account for, yes, but i just feel all the more impressed by the way you make patching and updating this game, even beta testing, so smooth.
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
this is a bump: not to be confused with a lump, for which one should see a specialist.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
oh yeah, the whole point of my post.

i've also noticed that at times, the AI seems to just destroy its own mining bases. its not at war with anyone, but suddenly there's an available resource (i notice this again because i keep structors stationed near most of the resources). the only explanation i can find is that the AI is scrapping them for some reason. i sometimes scrap other bases when i don't need them anymore or when i want to build a new one for less money, but never a mining base.

i can usually grab the available resource, but sometimes i miss it. it'd be really cool if you'd get an automatic notification when a new resourse is discovered or an old one becomes available.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I know what you mean, it's very easy for the human player to be opportunistic. You can also send your transports to a war between to ai's and do all the planet grab, since the winning ai wil take its time to send its own transports. Anyway it's always up to the player to behave like this or not. Some may even consider it an exploit.

As for the resource starbases. It would be fixed if the attacker captures the starbase instead of destroying it.

An yeah, I also see sometimes the AI abandoning resources for no apparent reason.

The AI could also be programmed to be more opportunistic to equal the human player, but I would personaly hate that. If there was something I used hate about Civ4 is how opportunistic the ai is. Actually, if there's something civ4's AI is good at, that's at annoying the player in varius ways, being so opportunistic is just one of them
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
About resource placement: Yes, it is unfair and random. But is that any different from the real world? I wouldn't think that evenly distributed resources would be very fun. It would mean that everyone got some, and you wouldn't have to fight for them.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, the AI can be opportunistic. Watch what happens when a minor race appears in the late game, and the AI won't hesitate to grab a resource once it's been liberated.

I agree with Excalidan though, the random placement of resources makes for interesting game decisions. A morale resource that it's my territory but mined by the terrans has been a source of constant diplomatic strife between us. He got to it the turn before my constructor could get there, and refuses to sell it, even for a total surrender (not that I would do that, but I was curious how much it was worth to him).

As a matter of fact, I can tell you that particular resource will be the flashpoint of a war that's going to start tonight. Uppity humans.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
An exploit that I have read about is to place a constructor and an attack ship near a resource base and then gift the attack ship to someone they are at war with. Considering how lightly defended the bases often are, it sounds like something that would work most of the time
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
An exploit that I have read about is to place a constructor and an attack ship near a resource base and then gift the attack ship to someone they are at war with. Considering how lightly defended the bases often are, it sounds like something that would work most of the time


I tried that once, and the freaking coward just flew away with my ship without trying to destroy the base. It had some defences on it though.


cgrd: yeah the AI will try to grab a resource if they see it's free, but what they won't do is place a constructor next to every resource, just to be there first in case it gets free. Anyway I guess you're right, the AI can also be opportunistic sometimes.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
About resource placement: Yes, it is unfair and random. But is that any different from the real world? I wouldn't think that evenly distributed resources would be very fun. It would mean that everyone got some, and you wouldn't have to fight for them.


you know, in hindsight i agree with you. the games where the resources were unbalanced have actually been some of my most memorable ones.

so i retract that statement. i might like an option to remove resources completely, instead. but then again, i always want more options.

and thank you Li for reminding me about the role-playing element of this game, that it's not always about winning or making use of every available expoit. that's actually how i prefer to play, anyway. i was more confused about why in the world an AI player would just scrap its investment in a mining base.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
speaking of surrender... I make a point of ALWAYS attacking any empire that accepts a surrender from someone I am at war with... even if its an ally. The mere notion is infuriating...
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think all resources should be evenly distributed to all Civs. Also, all civs should have exactly the same attributes, just different portraits and names.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think all resources should be evenly distributed to all Civs. Also, all civs should have exactly the same attributes, just different portraits and names.


heh, that's a lot farther than anything i had in mind. personally i'd hate identical races. i'm pretty sure you could level out their bonuses manually if you wanted in raceconfig.xml. their AI personalities would still remain, however.

i guess more than anything, i'd like options i could use to extend my games. i like longer games, but it can ge dissappointing when there's only 2 races left, and i'm barely getting to the really fun techs. the accelerated start scenario is kind cool, but you can only play terrans. i wonder if i could mod that...
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think all resources should be evenly distributed to all Civs. Also, all civs should have exactly the same attributes, just different portraits and names.


Troll?!



Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd love for mining resources to have a capture option. Also, doesn't it seem a little odd that you can never mine one out? I'd like to see resources disappear through mining and occasionally be randomly generated, like maybe seeing 1-2 new ones per year on a gigantic map. Throw in some randomly generating anomalies and you have a reason to keep explorers and surveyors out all game long.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
i've long been a proponent of re-populating anomolies. i'd really love it if they invested the effort needed to create an advanced setup screen for sandbox games that'd add a whole lot more options, and more refined ways to affect the things all ready there (star dispersion, for example). but hey it's not a make or break issue to me.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah, I think that resources are THE most important thing in the game (other then stratagy of course) afterall they grant +49% to whatever field there in, and many a time when my 50 Billion population killed my moral, a moral resource (or 3) was the solution, I think perhaps if a race gains say 2 resources, then they should but a priority in starbase techs to max out there starbases att/def, also, they should ALWAYS at least max the bonus from it with constructors.

My 2 cents anyway

I think all resources should be evenly distributed to all Civs. Also, all civs should have exactly the same attributes, just different portraits and names.


no way, no how!!

ST
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
heh, that's a lot farther than anything i had in mind. personally i'd hate identical races. i'm pretty sure you could level out their bonuses manually if you wanted in raceconfig.xml. their AI personalities would still remain, however.


Again. A joke taken too seriously. /rolleyes