CHRIST KILLER!

Once more, with Feeling

from JoeUser Forums
I grew up with Sicilians, I was the only non-Italian there in our little gang of around 300 kids.

There was a time when the Italians had there own turf. may generations grew up there. Between 112th street to 125th street, from the east river to Pleasant ave, to 1st ave, to 2nd ave, to 3rd ave, A solid wall of Italians.

I was very small for my age, at 13 I was 4ft 10 inches tall and weighed in at around 90 pounds.

I had eaten in their homes, they has eaten in mine, all the families looked out for the children of any other family,

We were surrounded on one side by blacks on the other by puerto ricans, Full blown wars were not unusual. Everyone watched everyone Else's backs, this was life as I knew it.

Then the day after my 13th Birthday and My bar mitzvah, I was over at Sals house talking, Sal lived with his mother and father 5 siblings, and not one but two grandmothers.

I got along well with Mrs. Dispenza, Sals maternal grandmother, I was always treated like family when I was there.

Mrs Dispenza loved to see kids eat, I can still hear her voice "manja, manja" On this day I was wearing my mezuzah, a gift from my father on my Bar Mitzvah day, the day before.

Mrs Dispenza saw it hanging on my neck and asked in her very faltering English, What is that you are wearing< I told her what it was, she said "you Jew?" I said yes of course, Suddenly my world fell apart, Her face changed and she spit right in my face, calling me Christ Killer She told me "get out! get outta my house" Never come back, as I left running from the room I heard her once again, Christ killer" dizgratziada {sp?}

This was my very first experience with racism, bigotry, what ever you want to call it. I was crushed I ran home crying, My sister Rose was there She was alarmed when she saw the condition I was in, and asked me what happened?

I told her the whole sordid story, I added "saying I never killed anyone" Why did she do that? MY sister explained as well as she could, I did not understand any of it. That day my world changed, The Italian Kids I grew up with could no longer play with me.


I was alone, alone in a war zone. This was the first of many times I had problems for no other reason than I am a Jew."
religion
5,428 views 40 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Not all attitudes have changed, but I hope most of them have.  I never heard that term until recent years, and I have seen no reason to ever use it either.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dang MM..I am so sorry that happened to you.

((((MM)))))

That was painful for me to read, I can't imagine how it hurt you as a child.

I am sure she is long dead now, and regrets the error of her thinking.
Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
#1 by Dr. Guy
Monday, May 22, 2006


Not all attitudes have changed,


now that's the truth and damned scary.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
2 by Tova7
Monday, May 22, 2006


That was painful for me to read, I can't imagine how it hurt you as a child.


I was crushed, 2 years later I was 6ft 3 and went around 170, That was one of a few incidents that help create the monster that I WAS.

Thanx for hug tove {{{tova}}}}

Believe it or not as I started typing this I grew angry .
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Believe it or not as I started typing this I grew angry


I can understand that anger...I was angry too and wanted to say something about your sister going over there and spitting in HER face....but then I remembered, you aren't Catholic, and you weren't Italian. That would be suicide.

There isn't anything that makes one a fighter in life faster than someone putting a boot on their neck.

I get the fight or die mentality MM...I've lived it...and while I was not in physical jeopardy of the kind you describe (well most of the time)...I know what it is to be so held down you have to fight or your soul will perish.

I'm just so glad you grew past the anger and into the loving husband and man you are today.

Anger itself is a kinda boot to the neck, when it controls us.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
#5 by Tova7
Monday, May 22, 2006


Anger itself is a kinda boot to the neck, when it controls us


I lived for years in a constant state of perpetual RAGE.

...I was angry too and wanted to say something about your sister going over there and spitting in HER face....but then I remembered, you aren't Catholic, and you weren't Italian. That would be suicide.


YES IT WOULD HAVE BEEN, BESIDES ROSIE WAS IN HER 20'S AND MRS Dispenza looked to be around 400 years old, she was a withered little crone. I miss what we had before that day.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I miss what we had before that day.


I believe at the root of all anger is hurt....you say you raged for years...sounds like you were hurting for years and rage was your outlet.

Glad you are feeling less angry.

Anger is a wicked bitch. She seems to help you out at first, giving you the energy and momentum to escape...then once safe she starts eating out your guts.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
#7 by Tova7
Monday, May 22, 2006


believe at the root of all anger is hurt....you say you raged for years...sounds like you were hurting for years and rage was your outlet.

Glad you are feeling less angry.


Less angry for sure. I was told this about rage it's really good and very appropriate " RAGE IS like a poison YOU!DRINK hoping the other person will die"
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Very apt.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've never understood this attitude among some so-called "Christians", especially some of the more devout Catholics. I've always considered being Christian as being at least a little Jewish (sorry if you find that offensive) as the Christian religion is a direct decendent of the Jewish. After all, Jesus was a Jew.

I've always believed that Jews and Christians to be brothers of a sort, just ones that at one point went down different paths in history. No two groups could have so much in common.

Besides, the whole point of the Christian belief is that Christ died so that we could be redeemed which was the plan of God, therefore the Jews of the day were acting according to His plan, so how can one hold any malace towards them? The whole thing is plainly stupid, and that woman was obviously dead wrong.

I can understand the hurt it must have inflicted.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
10 by MasonM
Monday, May 22, 2006


I've never understood this attitude among some so-called "Christians", especially some of the more devout Catholics. I've always considered being Christian as being at least a little Jewish (sorry if you find that offensive) as the Christian religion is a direct decendent of the Jewish. After all, Jesus was a Jew.


I have never understood it either!

Nope I do NOT feel dissed, not at all.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm also very sorry to hear of this incident and know many just like you fared this way. My Uncle Harry was a Jew (now deceased) and he told the same story. When I told this recently to my new Catholic friend she said she never heard such things. Her thinking is the Catholics are the ones bashed.

I believe a true Christian loves the Jews because, as said before, Jesus their Lord came from this people group. We as Christians are grafted into the Jewish Abrahamic tree and are as adopted. It's supposed to be a good thing. Paul wrote that the whole mystery is that Jew and Gentile would be joint heirs in the Kingdom of God.

Things like what you described are done in the name of ignorance. If those Catholics only read their own bible they would see very plainly these words in Acts 4:26-28:

The kings of the earth stood up and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against his Christ. For of a truth against your holy child Jesus whom you have annointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel were gathered together, to do whatsoever your hand and your counsel determined before to be done.

In other words....both Jews and Gentiles are guilty and had a hand in the death of Christ but ultimately it was predetermined to happen anyway. Christ said his life was not taken from him. He gave it willingly. It even says when he was on the cross that HE GAVE up his spirit. The deed matched his earlier words.

I hope this helps.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: KFC (Kickin For Christ)Posted: Monday, May 22, 2006


you explaination are very nice. I have long been over that incident, almost 47 years ago this happened.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
People can be quite cruel. I know there is nothing I can say nor do to make this go away. What happened, happened. Even as much as it does break my heart I cannot take it away. Thanks for opening up and sharing.

Shalom Aleichem MM.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
as 'the passion of the christ' clearly shows us, it was romans (possibly assisted by the odd siclian) who scourged,pummeled, struck, assaulted, forced him to drag his cross around, semi-permanently attached him to the crucifix causing his body weight to be excuciatingly suspended, tormenting him by offering bitter gall before finally impaling him with a huge spike.

romans...not jews.

it sure opened my eyes btw. after several years of latin study i fully (and foolishly) expected far, far more from the romans than the kinda lil girlyman floggings depicted in the film

as i recall, it took 3 supposedly skilled legionaires damn near 45 minutes to deal out the kinda flaying n shit a couple detroit vice-squad underachievers coulda easily accomplished in half the time.

hopefully mrs disgusta lived long enuff to see for herself whatta buncha finnochio her forebears were. then again, what did she think all the leather, shorts and those big swords were all about?
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
14 by Adventure-Dude
Tuesday, May 23, 2006


People can be quite cruel. I know there is nothing I can say nor do to make this go away. What happened, happened. Even as much as it does break my heart I cannot take it away. Thanks for opening up and sharing.

Shalom Aleichem MM.


you are welcome A D and the hurt came from her ignorance of the facts, remember that Catholics were spoon fed this kind of nasty BY THE Pope, through the Vatican then fed in not so small doses by their local priests. I forgave Mrs dispenza long ago. Z"father? forgive them for they no not what they have done"

shalom to you too.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
15 by kingbee
Tuesday, May 23, 2006


Romans...not Jews


The Jews played their part kingbee, the Rabbis were in a snit because they saw their POWER slipping away, the Romans used the Jews to get rid of a troublemaker {Christ} and the Jews used the Romans and roman law to get rid of "this rabble rouser" Christ.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think the point is that it was no single group at 'fault' but that there were many. Even still though to associate you with many generations ago is sad. That's like the blacks going up to a white person and scrutinizing them for slavery. It's misplaced anger that shouldn't be there. The piece I don't understand is every race, every ethnicity has their black eye. Some just realize it less than others.

I think this was good to get people thinking about their own lives. The things we say out of ignorance.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Adventure-DudePosted: Tuesday, May 23, 2006I think the point is that it was no single group at 'fault' but that there were many. Even still though to associate you with many generations ago is sad. That's like the blacks going up to a white person and scrutinizing them for slavery. It's misplaced anger that shouldn't be there. The piece I don't understand is every race, every ethnicity has their black eye. Some just realize it less than others. I think this was good to get people thinking about their own lives. The things we say out of ignorance


more times than I can count I have seen slurs like this aimed at other people. someone wanted to borrow some Monet the other guy said no, the guy asking for money responded "YOU CHEAP JEW BASTARD"at A FLEA market someone trying to barter downwards saying " watch me Jew him down": What is sad about these 2 of many examples is, They could not begin to see how offensive that stuff is, what really surprised them when I spoken up "hey I don't appreciate that kind of talk. i was asked "why" The look on there faces was priceless when I told them " I amma JEW" wanna make something of it?
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've read this thread with interest and I think that Mrs Dispenza's ignorant attitude may have hurt you even more than you let on here. Here's the deal though: haven't I've also seen you on JU making it clear you just how much you hate 'faggots'? If Mrs Dispenza had ever popped into your head at those moments you might have paused for a second. Instead, let's be frank, you give a good impression of seeming to dish out the same kind of prejudice that upset you so much at an early age.

In this sad old world though we can find lesbians who are racists, anti- semitic 'brothers'from the ''hood', Jews who are homophobic, christians who hate muslims and vice versa, and all kinds of other people who cope with the shit they receive by dishing it out in their turn.

If you count them all up, we're probably all part of a 'minority' somewhere along the long, whether our skin is black, or our neck is red. What keeps this sad old world going the way it does, is that too few people, when hurt by the comments of others, ever have enough sympathetic imagination to see that they in turn are often perpetuating the same thing.

This was posted in the religion forum, so it's not inappropriate to add some religious thoughts. It seems natural that we have a liking for some persons, things and situations; it seems natural that we have an aversion for some persons, things and situations. But the truth is 'like' and 'dislike' cause mental suffering for ourselves and others. So, here's a question: you are one day in a place with someone you love, someone you feel neutral about and someone you hate. The four of you are captured by bandits who need a victim for human sacrifice. Of the four of you, who would you choose?...
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Romans used the Jews to get rid of a troublemaker {Christ} and the Jews used the Romans


altho who used whom only to wind up being used can't be overstudied, 'passion of the christ' is the only production i've ever seen in which a number of rome's finest spent so much time wailin on only one unarmed guy who not only got up and walked away afterwards...bearing a heavy wooden cross to boot.

if my ancestors were roman, i might or might not have put all my energies into making gibson pay for that kinda defamation. but since ya never know, i woulda prolly been lots less likely to unnecessarily focus additional attention on the event in question.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
So, here's a question: you are one day in a place with someone you love, someone you feel neutral about and someone you hate. The four of you are captured by bandits who need a victim for human sacrifice. Of the four of you, who would you choose?...


myself. There is no greater love than one willing to die for another. Jesus is Love. He wants us to follow him even to death if need be. My conscience would accept no other way. It would have to be me.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
myself. There is no greater love than one willing to die for another. Jesus is Love. He wants us to follow him even to death if need be. My conscience would accept no other way. It would have to be me.


HAHAH. You beat me to it. I was going to say this...but then add...

OF course I can't say for sure because I have done things in a pinch that made me happy later...and sometimes I've done things that made me ashamed.

It would probably depend on why I hated the person. Did they just molest my child? Did they just torture and kill my husband in front of me? IF so, well its a decision I would at least walk away from after makin.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
20 by Chakgogka
Wednesday, May 24, 2006


haven't I've also seen you on JU making it clear you just how much you hate 'faggots'?


no you HAVE NOT, the term I use for those i dislike is MAGGOTS. I have no problem with homosexuals, except I do not wanat them to use the term 'MARRIAGE" i AM ALL FOR EQUAL RIGHTS FOR\\THEM civil rights as a couple.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
I would choose the one I hate, even though I do not think I am fully capable of hatred anymore. Takes too much away from me.