The Top Ten Things I Have Learned From Preaching in Italian

from JoeUser Forums
10. Speaking in tongues is a gift available to us today; and I don’t have it.

9. Practice doesn’t make perfect, but it makes good enough.

8. You can communicate even the most complicated ideas in the simplest of sentences.

7. It’s not about what you say, but about what the Spirit is saying.

6. You can always find a verse that explains a thought in a more simplified manner.

5. God works in spite of our weaknesses.

4. The glory goes to God, not to me. The purpose is to share the word of God, not to
receive the glory of this world.

3. It is always better to use what you know, however simple it may be, and be
understood, than to try and use what you don’t know and be incomprehensible.

2. You have to take the word of God seriously, but yourself very lightly.

1. Seeing a confused face can make you feel like a failure.
religion
11,473 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Very interesting article. I can empathize, having also preached the gospel in a foreign tongue - Spanish.

What's brought you to this point? Why Italian? What are you doing? Just curious.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
While I agree with alot of what you are saying, I do not believe speaking in tongues is for today nor is it biblical for today. You spoke nothing of an interpreter. Scripture is clear that if one speaks in a tongue than an interpreter will be provided also by the Holy Spirit.

Do you have one available when you are speaking in Italian? Also do you speak Italian or have you been taught Italian before this experience of speaking in tongues?

Preaching in another language is not the same thing as speaking in tongues not according to scripture anyway.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
@ you, KFC. You've met your match, I promise.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
@ you, KFC. You've met your match, I promise.


(I'm saying nothing...definitely putting this thread on my watchlist, though!)
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey you guys...are you trying to scare me? You should know me better than that.....why don't you get in the game?

No thoughts on the matter yourselves? Com'on I dare you!! This issue has been waging a war all around me here in my home town as well. One gal said she woke up in the middle of the night speaking in tongues so it must be true. I told her that I woke up in the middle of the night thinking I was late for my wedding (a nightmare) but it's not me getting married. It's my son!! We can't base this stuff on our experiences alone. We must check out what the word of God says and match up with it.

Boy, I could use some friends around here. Feel like I'm all alone when it comes to this issue on JU but I know what the word of God says and I will stand on it. God plus one is a majority after all.......
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Preaching in another language is not the same thing as speaking in tongues not according to scripture anyway.

??? Isn't that what Avanti said? Tenth thing learned from preaching in Italian: "Speaking in tongues is a gift available to us today; and I don't have it".
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
San Chonino
What's brought you to this point? Why Italian? What are you doing? Just curious.

My wife and I are missionaries in Taranto, Italy. We are currently members of the Avanti Italia Link program and will finish our commitment in August. You can check out our website
Link to read more about us and what we are doing. How long have you been speaking Spanish?

KFC
I do not believe speaking in tongues is for today nor is it biblical for today. You spoke nothing of an interpreter. Scripture is clear that if one speaks in a tongue than an interpreter will be provided also by the Holy Spirit.

Be careful not to assume too much about people and their situations. We should all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. I don't believe an interpreter is needed if the audience speaks Italian. I am a missionary in Italy, so it makes sense that I would try to learn and speak Italian, as they say, when in Rome!
Do you have one available when you are speaking in Italian? Also do you speak Italian or have you been taught Italian before this experience of speaking in tongues?

No need to have one, yes I have studied Italian.
Preaching in another language is not the same thing as speaking in tongues not according to scripture anyway.

According to the scriptures, what is speaking in tongues?

Chakgogka
??? Isn't that what Avanti said? Tenth thing learned from preaching in Italian: "Speaking in tongues is a gift available to us today; and I don't have it".

Yeah, well in hindsight I guess I should have put up some background information. I think that it would have shed a lot more light on the situation. It is frustrating though, I know several people who have the gift of tongues, or we could also say languages, - and I hate those people! ; )
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
#1 is why I respect good teachers!  And dont try to do their job.  You can get those in almost any teaching setting, and mine was simple math, not scriptures.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC,

I have opinions on the fact, very strong actually, but I believe it is counterproductive to our mission as Christians. What kind of witness do we serve if we spend more time squabbling amongst ourselves than sharing the gospel? If you want to know my opinions, my email address is posted in my profile and on my blog site.

Do not assume too much, my friend
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Be careful not to assume too much about people and their situations. We should all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. I don't believe an interpreter is needed if the audience speaks Italian. I am a missionary in Italy, so it makes sense that I would try to learn and speak Italian, as they say, when in Rome!


Yes, I agree here. I think I did assume thinking you were putting all together speaking in tongues/preaching in a language you are familiar with. I'm sorry for that.

So with that, let me clarify. I agree with all you orignially wrote with the exception of #10!!

Thanks Gid, while I do agree this is a non essential I do have some serious reasons to believe this is not from God and could actually be harmful in some aspects. In some cases it's being taught as an essential which I'm sure you are aware of. But God is God and he sees and takes care of all his own and I don't get bent up about it only wishing to shed light on the situation.

Blessings to all......
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Be careful not to assume too much about people and their situations. We should all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. I don't believe an interpreter is needed if the audience speaks Italian. I am a missionary in Italy, so it makes sense that I would try to learn and speak Italian, as they say, when in Rome!


Yes, I agree here. I think I did assume thinking you were putting all together speaking in tongues/preaching in a language you are familiar with. I'm sorry for that.

So with that, let me clarify. I agree with all you orignially wrote with the exception of #10!!

Thanks Gid, while I do agree this is a non essential I do have some serious reasons to believe this is not from God and could actually be harmful in some aspects. In some cases it's being taught as an essential which I'm sure you are aware of. But God is God and he sees and takes care of all his own and I don't get bent up about it only wishing to shed light on the situation.

Blessings to all......
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC
Yes, I agree here. I think I did assume thinking you were putting all together speaking in tongues/preaching in a language you are familiar with. I'm sorry for that.

Quite alright, it happens to all of us!
I agree with all you originally wrote with the exception of #10!!

You've never known anyone who had a gift for speaking another language?

Gid
I believe it is counterproductive to our mission as Christians

I agree 100% and have so for some time, but it hasn't been until recently that I have made this a part of my life. It's one thing to say you believe this way and it's another thing to actually live it.
What kind of witness do we serve if we spend more time squabbling amongst ourselves than sharing the gospel?

Actually, this is one of our greatest battles. Jesus prayed for unity, and is still waiting for that answer. We others see how we are inside the church, how we fight and bicker amongst ourselves, it turns them away from the message of Christ. We are, like Paul says to the Galatians, devouring each other.

Dr.Guy
You can get those in almost any teaching setting, and mine was simple math, not scriptures.

I am confident though, in whatever you teach, you can be teaching the ways of Christ. It is a great responsibility, and even James says that teachers will be judged more strictly.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
You've never known anyone who had a gift for speaking another language?


yes, but that's not what you said in #10.

I actually know a girl that has a tremdous gift for languages. She's from Bulgaria and I helped her while she was in HS a few years ago. She spent many nights here at my home while going thru school. She graduated #1 in her class even with English as her second language. She beat all my boys in the SAT scores.

Even then she knew quite a few slavic languages. She received a full scholarship to college in Oregon and is studying languages. After studying Greek and Hebrew (one of my contacts) she know is in France studying Arabic for a year. All the classes are in French (of course) except for the Arabic classes.

She has a gift for languages. Speaking in tongues is different. It's a gift from God and God alone. It's speaking an unknown langauge foreign to your tongue but not the hearer's ear.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC
She has a gift for languages.

This is what I am talking about. We all have "talents" or "gifts" that are God-given. Some people have the gift of tongues i.e. gift of languages.

Don't let the word "tongues" confuse you, it can mean "tongue" as in the thing in your mouth, a "tongue" as in a language, as well as the miraculous speaking in tongues such as what occurred on the day of Pentecost.

I think the disagreement stems from that fact that we are using different definitions of the word, neither actually wrong, just different.

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well AT, that could be from your POV but when I think of "tongues" in a religious sense like you stated in your article here, I think of Acts Chap2. In that chapter along with Paul's two chapters (ROM 12 & 1 COR 12) he was talking about a gift from God. Learning a language is not necessarily a gift from God. A talent is not the same thing as a "gift." One is used solely in the building up of the church while the other is just something you're particulary good at and enjoy doing but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with God or His church.

When you say "we all" are you talking Christians and non Christians alike?

I tried your link but couldn't get thru. I'm interested in what you do for missionary work in Italy.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC:
When you say "we all" are you talking Christians and non Christians alike?


Do you believe God would only bless "Christians" with special talents and abilities? I don't quite get why you always come off so smug and antagonistic. I'm sure you don't mean to, but you certainly come off that way.

Here's a working link to his website and a link to the Avanti Italia website.

PS - Jeremy, I'll email you soon.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC
Learning a language is not necessarily a gift from God.

Then who is it from?

One is used solely in the building up of the church while the other is just something you're particularly good at and enjoy doing but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with God or His church.

Again, to whom are you attributing our gifts and abilities? If they don't have any thing to do with God, where do they come from?

I believe that the gifts of God manifest themselves differently today. In the first century there was an urgent need, hence the miraculous speaking in tongues etc. Today the gift of tongues still exist, it is just not longer what many would consider "miraculous."

I still think that we most likely agree on this topic, but for some reason aren't making ourselves clear to one another.

When you say "we all" are you talking Christians and non Christians alike?

ALL humans are made in the image of God. That in and of itself is a gift, isn't it? He also sends the rain on the just and the unjust. Christians are those that have decided to follow Christ. It doesn't make God love those who have not decided to follow Christ any less.

May understanding is that every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

TW
PS - Jeremy, I'll email you soon.

Cool! We are heading down to Rome tomorrow morning so I will be away from the computer for a few days, take your time! Love ya.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sorry I'm so late in responding. I was out of state and not wired up to get on JU. I hope it's not too late to respond.

Do you believe God would only bless "Christians" with special talents and abilities? I don't quite get why you always come off so smug and antagonistic. I'm sure you don't mean to, but you certainly come off that way.


No, what I'm saying is there is a difference between natural talents and spiritual gifts. One is for the natural world and one is not. Natural talents are not powered by the Holy Spirit and used for the edification of the church.

I'm not sure what you mean about smugness? Is it because I asked a question? I did so for clarification so that I wouldn't assume as I did earlier on this subject. I do tend to be blunt not with as much tact as I should have I admit. I'm not one for flowery flattering words. I don't like to be on the receiving end of it so I don't give it as well. Sorry TW if I offended you in any way. Thanks for the links.

Again, to whom are you attributing our gifts and abilities? If they don't have any thing to do with God, where do they come from?


Basically I'm saying is that spiritual gifts work in the spiritual realm and natural talents in the natural realm. Since all Christians are humans they have natural talents as well as spiritual gifts. For instance a Christian may have a natural talent for public speaking but not necessarily have the spiritual gift of teaching. But not all humans are Christians, and do not have the HS, therefore they do not possess spiritual gifts but do have natural abilities.

We were talking earlier about tongues right? Well Rosy my girlfriend like I said above has a gift for languages. Now I use that term loosly. She studied many,many many hours in the study of these languages to be proficient in them. I would say she has the tenacity and a hard work ethic that came from inside her or was developed by her environment maybe discipline learned from her parents to get where she's at now. This is different than the "gift of tongues" Paul was talking about and what we observe in scripture. These uneducated men spoke a language they never knew or studied before for the benefit of the hearers. That was supernatural; a "gift" from God. Not something of their own doing. I do find it interesting that we have no record of Paul speaking in tongues. I'm thinking maybe because he was proficient in many languages to begin with having been a student of the great Gamaliel. I was just reading that Paul was learned in at least Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic and as he said was a Pharisee of Pharisees.

ALL humans are made in the image of God. That in and of itself is a gift, isn't it? He also sends the rain on the just and the unjust.

May understanding is that every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.


Yes, I agree with you. Everything on earth is his. He created it all. I have a quote for you; it also serves as a warning.

"The lesson is clear. Don't try to use your natural talents to accomplish the work of God, for talents cannot operate in that sphere. But use them as channels or vehicles for spiritual gifts, and you will find that they dovetail beautifully. You might expect that they would do this since they both come from the same God." Ray Stedman

Natural abilities (talents)benefit the whole creation. Spiritual gifts, however are largely limited to the church although the presence of the church in the world is generally a benefit to mankind as well.

Does this make sense?
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
KFC

Sorry I'm so late in responding.


No prob!

One is for the natural world and one is not.
Basically I'm saying is that spiritual gifts work in the spiritual realm and natural talents in the natural realm.


I disagree here. The Christian world is not cut and dry, day and night, natural and spiritual. The Christian world is a spiritual world. In other words, a Christian cannot live a dichotomized life. The spiritual is directly connected and united with the natural, and I think Paul would agree. He wrote the Corinthians to address this exact issue, that what goes on in the natural does indeed affect the spiritual (1 Corinthians 6). The natural and spiritual are not separate containers, but are one.

Let me give you an example. A person has a natural "talent" for public speaking, they become a Christian and that same "talent" is used for preaching. Now, since that person has become a Christian, do we now call that "talent" a "gift?" What has changed about it? Simply put nothing. A natural talent can and is used to edify the church.

I do find it interesting that we have no record of Paul speaking in tongues.


1 Corinthians 14:18 – I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.


Natural abilities (talents)benefit the whole creation

Which would include the church.

I also have a quote for you.

"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." The Apostle Paul

At this point I think we pretty much understand one another. We disagree, and that's okay. The New Testament is not the Old Law but with new commandments and I fear that too often we approach it as such. A Pharisee is not what I aspire to be. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free and I will bind no man, woman or child to what amounts to “educated speculations.” You have your idea and I have mine and I'm okay with that.

Grace to you and peace from God Father and Lord Jesus Christ.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free and I will bind no man, woman or child to what amounts to “educated speculations.”


Insightful for that.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now, since that person has become a Christian, do we now call that "talent" a "gift?" What has changed about it?


Well, what has changed the person? The answer is the same.

1 Corinthians 14:18 – I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.


yes, but what I meant was we have no record of him using this gift specifically. He knew the true gift and used it properly is what I believe he's saying in that verse. But nowhere in the NT do we see him actually exercising this gift. Neither do we see in any of his writings where he mentions any specific use of it by any Christian. You

We disagree, and that's okay.


Yes!!! Good quote BTW



Blessings