Does Kavvya REALLY Deserve a Second Chance?

from JoeUser Forums

In the case of the Harvard undergrad, one blogger began pleading her case for a second chance. Another blogger has been staunchly rallying to her cause. But the question is, DOES she deserve a "second chance" with Harvard University?

While there's a tendency for most of us pedestrian Americans to dismiss Harvard students as a bunch of "preppy snobs" (out of jealousy mainly, methinks), the fact is, they have a high standard for admission for most Americans. Granted, they let in their share of "legacies", but even those legacies have to uphold the reputation of the university.

For those who missed it, this Harvard undergrad had a published novel that was discovered to have been lifted to a pretty significant degree from another author. Allegations claim several sources, and with possible good reason. It's a pretty compelling case of plagiarism, and it appears to be pretty substantial.

The thing that gets me about it is, for the plagiarism to pass the scrutiny of the editors, it must have been pretty well disguised. This would indicate some level of experience in stealing the works of others, not the work of an amateur. So this sheds light on the credibility of everything this individual has ever written, from college admission essays to high school papers, and to extracurricular writing activity which was almost certainly used as a basis for admission to Harvard. This means that it is entirely possible that she was admitted to the university under false pretenses.

But let's go further than that, shall we? What do we teach our children if we cannot teach them that it is unacceptable to cheat? If she is allowed to be given a "pass" because of her age, then what of the students who use crib notes on finals? Is a free pass acceptable in the academic community?

I do not believe it is. I believe that one of the things our universities need to instill in our children is character and responsibility. You simply cannot and should not teach children that it is acceptable to gain financially through dishonest means, such as this young lady has done. If this theft were to take place in the corporate world, it could cost one's company a LOT of money (and it DID cost this woman's publisher a lot of money in the printing and release of the book, as well as the subsequent recall after her plagiarism was discovered).

If Harvard does not act against this young lady, their reputation is in jeopardy. They MUST act with a heavy hand against this action. While it may be unfashionable to perceive one's creative product as "work" to someone who does not engage in such, believe me and others when we say that it takes more work than you realize. Someone should not steal that work without penalty.

This lady does deserve to finish her education. But not here. Not at Harvard. She should finish her education at a state college that will accept her and her obvious academic skill, and pay the price for what she did. Not only as a lesson to herself, but to others as well.

2,678 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
America is all about second chances. It's also about there being consequences to your actions.

She plagarized. Becuase she did that, she shouldn't be able to continue her education at Harvard.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Sorry if I dont pick up your pitchfork and torch.  She is being penalized.  But I do not think she deserves a life sentence.  I dont defend her actions, but at the same time, I am not condemning her to a life of destitution because she made a mistake.  She is paying for it.  Let it go at that.  She did not get into harvard, nor did they share in her initiial accolades on the novel.  That is her own doing.  Harvard is a school set up to teach, not to judge.  We forget that.

Make the punishment fit the crime.  Dont give her a life sentence for a misdeameanor.

SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dont give her a life sentence for a misdeameanor.


Banning her from Harvard is HARDLY a life sentence, Dr. Most of us wouldn't have the chance to get there in the first place. Plagiarism is a very serious crime in the academic world, and the discovery of her plagiarism sheds as much doubt on her academic credentials (which probably were the basis for her admission to Harvard) as steroids shed on Barry Bond's baseball accomplishments.

I didn't say ban her from ALL colleges and universities. But she should not remain at Harvard when so many students that DIDN'T cheat were denied admission.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Dont give her a life sentence for a misdeameanor.

It's not a misdemeanour to me. She knowingly took another person' work and tried to pass it off as her own.  To writers, that's HUGE.  Shoot, I'm only a wanna be writer but if someone ripped off one of my pieces and tried to say it was their own original work I'd be highly ticked off.

Nobody is saying that she has to be kicked out of school for the rest of her life.  She simply doesn't deserve to retain her place as a student at an elite academic institution.  Let her go somehwere else instead.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

How does one know if she did this? What if this turns out to be handiwork of the publishers? What they were doing when the book was under review? Media is always hungry for young heroes. Methinks poor soul is made out to be a scapegoat.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

How does one know if she did this? What if this turns out to be handiwork of the publishers? What they were doing when the book was under review? Media is always hungry for young heroes. Methinks poor soul is made out to be a scapegoat.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sorry if I dont pick up your pitchfork and torch. She is being penalized. But I do not think she deserves a life sentence. I dont defend her actions, but at the same time, I am not condemning her to a life of destitution because she made a mistake. She is paying for it. Let it go at that. She did not get into harvard, nor did they share in her initiial accolades on the novel. That is her own doing. Harvard is a school set up to teach, not to judge. We forget that.
Make the punishment fit the crime. Dont give her a life sentence for a misdeameanor


I agree. She has been punished enough. At 19 you cannot inflict permanent damage on a child. I stand by what I have written and endorse dr Guy.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
At 19 you cannot inflict permanent damage on a child.


You're so right, baha. No crime committed at that age should be allowed to stand. Release all murderers and rapists that committed their crimes at that age.

The point is, while her offense doesn't come close to rising to the level of seriousness of murder and rape, she is nonetheless an adult and should have to pay the consequences for her actions. You don't get into Harvard without knowing how serious an offense plagiarism is. PERIOD. She can't claim ignorance on this.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
She has been punished enough.


Actually, she HASN'T been punished. She has simply been asked to return an advance she didn't earn. That's not a punishment, that's a natural consequence. Huge difference there.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I suppose it depends on Harvard's rules. Obviously if she plagarized for class work--she would fall under their policy (which you posted earlier, but I don't remember)--and if it was within their policy, they could see fit to expell her.

However, since this wasn't for Harvard related activity, Harvard would have to have an existing policy for punishing students for "crimes" committed off campus/not in relation to the academics. The university I attended had a policy that did just that--if you were caught off campus in the summer for underage drinking--it was considered an honor code violation. The policy simply was that whatever you did, regardless of where you were, while you were enrolled at the university was subject to the university's rules.

If Harvard doesn't already have a similar policy, then I think they should instate one--but they can't punish her de facto--or at least in my opinion.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Did she publish the novel as part of her academic work at Harvard? If not, then the school doesn't have jurisdiction. I've read all about her plagiarism, and as a writer with a few publishing credits to my name, I hate it. I deplore it. She should be criminally prosecuted, definitely.

If she had plagiarized something in an academic paper or other type of work for Harvard, then she should be expelled for academic dishonesty. But to me, it's like an "A" student getting expelled for smoking dope -- that student still met school requirements, so the school should STFU.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Did she publish the novel as part of her academic work at Harvard? If not, then the school doesn't have jurisdiction. I've read all about her plagiarism, and as a writer with a few publishing credits to my name, I hate it. I deplore it. She should be criminally prosecuted, definitely.

If she had plagiarized something in an academic paper or other type of work for Harvard, then she should be expelled for academic dishonesty. But to me, it's like an "A" student getting expelled for smoking dope -- that student still met school requirements, so the school should STFU.


Agreed--unless Harvard has an "honor code" policy that extends beyond the university into all the students' activities and the student body is fully aware of it.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
she is nonetheless an adult and should have to pay the consequences for her actions. You don't get into Harvard without knowing how serious an offense plagiarism is. PERIOD. She can't claim ignorance on this.


She has paid for her misdeed, if any. You cannot punish someone twice for the same act. Agreed she has done something terribly wrong. Surely a chiild of 19 or perhaps even just 18 deserves some consideration. She may be an adult, legally speaking but just youngster reading"chicklitt" as far as the world is concerned.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
she is nonetheless an adult and should have to pay the consequences for her actions. You don't get into Harvard without knowing how serious an offense plagiarism is. PERIOD. She can't claim ignorance on this.


She has paid for her misdeed, if any. You cannot punish someone twice for the same act. Agreed she has done something terribly wrong. Surely a chiild of 19 or perhaps even just 18 deserves some consideration. She may be an adult, legally speaking but just youngster reading"chicklitt" as far as the world is concerned.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
However, since this wasn't for Harvard related activity, Harvard would have to have an existing policy for punishing students for "crimes" committed off campus/not in relation to the academics. The university I attended had a policy that did just that--if you were caught off campus in the summer for underage drinking--it was considered an honor code violation. The policy simply was that whatever you did, regardless of where you were, while you were enrolled at the university was subject to the university's rules.


Excellent point. And they do. I already looked it up.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
From Harvard's website. Relevant portions in bold

Students are expected to be familiar with those rules and regulations covered in this handbook that apply to them. Furthermore, it is the expectation of the Graduate School that all students, whether or not they are currently enrolled degree candidates, will behave in a mature and responsible manner. This presumption applies no less to a student's academic performance than to his or her social behavior. In the words of the Resolution on Rights and Responsibilities adopted by the Faculty of Arts and Sciences on April 14, 1970, "By accepting membership in the University, an individual joins a community ideally characterized by free expression, free inquiry, intellectual honesty, respect for the dignity of others, and openness to constructive change." Thus, plagiarism, sexual and racial harassment, the use of physical violence, or lying to an officer typifies violation of the principles on which the University is founded and requires disciplinary action.

They have authority to act.

And baha, my point is, she HASN'T been punished AT ALL, let alone "enough". All she has had to do to this point is return money that wasn't hers in the first place. That's not a punishment, that's a consequence.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
They have authority to act.


Given that (thanks for providing the information, Gid), I'd be suprised if Harvard doesn't boot her.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now all this hype leaves behind one important fact. Kavyaa has not borrowed any idea or even passages. What she has done is to incorporate a few phrases with some words changed in her book. While she has been graceful enough to accept her error, the fact is legally speaking this may not be proof of plagarism. As far as Harvard is concerned they have decided not to pursue this as it concerns a book for which no acdemic credit was taken. I think that 18 year old has learnt a lesson fo her life and let her get along with her studies.

Later when she is older and perhaps wiser she may write another book which will redeem her. Let her have a chance,she is just too young for all this.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now all this hype leaves behind one important fact. Kavyaa has not borrowed any idea or even passages. What she has done is to incorporate a few phrases with some words changed in her book. While she has been graceful enough to accept her error, the fact is legally speaking this may not be proof of plagarism. As far as Harvard is concerned they have decided not to pursue this as it concerns a book for which no acdemic credit was taken. I think that 18 year old has learnt a lesson fo her life and let her get along with her studies.

Later when she is older and perhaps wiser she may write another book which will redeem her. Let her have a chance,she is just too young for all this.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now all this hype leaves behind one important fact. Kavyaa has not borrowed any idea or even passages. What she has done is to incorporate a few phrases with some words changed in her book. While she has been graceful enough to accept her error, the fact is legally speaking this may not be proof of plagarism. As far as Harvard is concerned they have decided not to pursue this as it concerns a book for which no acdemic credit was taken. I think that 18 year old has learnt a lesson fo her life and let her get along with her studies.

Later when she is older and perhaps wiser she may write another book which will redeem her. Let her have a chance,she is just too young for all this.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now all this hype leaves behind one important fact. Kavyaa has not borrowed any idea or even passages. What she has done is to incorporate a few phrases with some words changed in her book. While she has been graceful enough to accept her error, the fact is legally speaking this may not be proof of plagarism. As far as Harvard is concerned they have decided not to pursue this as it concerns a book for which no acdemic credit was taken. I think that 18 year old has learnt a lesson fo her life and let her get along with her studies.

Later when she is older and perhaps wiser she may write another book which will redeem her. Let her have a chance,she is just too young for all this.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now all this hype leaves behind one important fact. Kavyaa has not borrowed any idea or even passages. What she has done is to incorporate a few phrases with some words changed in her book. While she has been graceful enough to accept her error, the fact is legally speaking this may not be proof of plagarism. As far as Harvard is concerned they have decided not to pursue this as it concerns a book for which no acdemic credit was taken. I think that 18 year old has learnt a lesson fo her life and let her get along with her studies.

Later when she is older and perhaps wiser she may write another book which will redeem her. Let her have a chance,she is just too young for all this.