I Want Proof.

from JoeUser Forums
Here's the scene: a typical Sunday morning church service.
Preacher: God is good. Amen?
Congregation: AMEN.
Preacher: Do you love God?
Again, a resounding "Amen" from the group. The Pastor goes on to speak. "God is great, Jesus died and rose again, do what the Bible says", etc, etc. Heads bob up and down in agreement. "Amen!" yells a man from the back of the room.
But, do any of them really hear anything the Pastor is saying? Do they ever question it, or do they simply follow it in blind faith? Or could it be that they just shout out their hallelujah's and amens and walk out the door and get on with their lives?
"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world
today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with
their lips, then walk out the door,
and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an
unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable"
Don't get me wrong, I'm no perfect Christian who always listans to what the Pastor says and apply it to my life. Just the opposite in fact. Either I don't listen, or I listen then deliberately walk the opposite way. It's not always complete disobedience on purpose. sometimes it just kind of happens. But anyway...
What is the point? What is the point of living by this book of rules and tale of love, if I don't understand God? Why should I trust a God that allows bad things happen to good people? Most Christians' responses would be "It's a result of sin". BUT if the Bible is really true, why did God allow such terrible things happen to Job? He was a great and holy man.
Why did God create us if the majority of us are going to Hell?
Christian says: God created us so that we could have a relationship with Him in eternity and experience His love.
Me: Yeah, isn't that kind of selfish on His part, considering most of us are STILL going to Hell?
Another Christian says: God gave us free will so that we wouldn't simply be His puppets.
Me: God must have just been bored.
I know deep down that none of this is true. None of my quick responses are what I really believe, but for some reason, they're what I want to believe. I want to make myself feel like I'm the one in control of my life, and not some big being up in the sky.
Another reason I want to believe all these other things is simply because I disagree with the way God did things. I know that's pretty stupid to say, because I'm not God or anything close to it. But I stand firm in that belief, that I disagree with some things God has done, that have been recorded in the Bible.
I hate people who are naive. OK, hate's a strong word. They annoy me. They say what they believe, but have no answers to the "Why" questions. I dislike it when people are so wrapped up in the emotion they call worship. They get absolutely consumed with it, and say it's the Holy Spirit. But, when the music fades away, so does that feeling. It's like a high. After it wears off, you come crashing down, and your faith becomes nothing but an emotional rollercoaster.
I want something true, and I want proof. I don't want to put all my trust into it until I fully agree with every aspect of it. I refuse to dive in and go with the flow and accept everything I read. When I have questions, I want an answer better than "God is God". So, anybody have any answers?
religion
2,084 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nothing my parents said when I was a child made any sense, either. Noble ideals, even the secular ones, don't make much sense in the real world either. Give me proof that donating my kidney is of some benefit to me. Give me proof that freedom or liberty really are superior than the chance I might be the one everyone has to bow to.

If you want to stop believing any ideal that doesn't have a big, gravely voice explaining why you ought to do it, then you have a lot of work to do. When I was a kid how my parents did things made no sense at all, even when they explained it. You either trusted that they knew what they were doing, or rebelled and faced whatever consequences there were.

If you think a mortal, imperfect human with very limited knowledge of the universe has the ability to acheive as comprehensive a view of life, the universe, and everything as an omnipotent God, well, then it would make sense that a 10 year old might know more how to take care of himself than his parents. If you lack a belief in God, fine, none of what I say will have any effect on you.

If, on the other hand, you believe in God, but what He does has to make sense to you in order for you to swallow it, go hang out at a vet's office sometime. See if the animals understand the benefit of what is happening. You and I would be less than animals in comparison to an omnipotent God.

Most of religion is made up, no disputing you there. The problem is we sometimes take those made-up standards of morality and such, and then impose them on God, when they shouldn't even have been imposed on us. My personal belief is that God is perfect, and when I find things that add up, I don't seek the flaw in God. With that perspective, you can take part in religion and not let its sickness bleed over onto your view of God.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Most of religion is made up, no disputing you there. The problem is we sometimes take those made-up standards of morality and such, and then impose them on God, when they shouldn't even have been imposed on us.


i don't like religion.
but I do love God. I know I do. I just don't understand Him... at all.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
If, on the other hand, you believe in God, but what He does has to make sense to you in order for you to swallow it, go hang out at a vet's office sometime. See if the animals understand the benefit of what is happening. You and I would be less than animals in comparison to an omnipotent God.


Good point, Baker. I am a believer - I do have a church that I believe firmly in; I don't, however, believe that the majority of us are going to go to hell. I honestly believe that God will save as many of us as will let ourselves be saved, whether in this life, or the life to come.
PS Baker - sorry if I offended with the KFC colonel comment the other day, wasn't my intent.

but I do love God. I know I do. I just don't understand Him... at all.


And neither do any of us. Even those who can be called prophets don't have an understanding of what they're dealing with. God is incomprehensible. Our finite minds cannot understand the infinite.
Trite? Yes. True? Also.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
"PS Baker - sorry if I offended with the KFC colonel comment the other day, wasn't my intent."


LOL, no worries, I was joking. Just don't push Col Gene off on us Kentucky folks...
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
ahhhh the Religion vs Relationship debate. I for the most part do not like religion very much myself. On the other hand I too love God with my whole heart, mind and soul. I'm afraid tho that many blame God for all they see that goes on in the local church body. Satan seems to go unnoticed during such times and gleefully so from his point of view. He's the instigator and enjoys seeing God take the blame for his antics.

Because Jesus wanted us to be together united in him he established the church, and I do attend a local body of believers for that reason. I can see and understand why he did wish us to unite together in worship. It's an awesome thing when we do come together in his spirit, putting all else aside for that time period and worship God as a corporate group. It's a place for us to draw strength from. Think of it as a warm fire with each believer a lit log. As we all come together the fire burns bright. For the Christian that does not come into this setting he is like a log that has rolled away from the fire. Eventually the fire does go out and grows cold.

We just need to keep our eyes on Him, stay connected to a local body of believers and not get too carried away with the influences here on earth.

but I do love God. I know I do. I just don't understand Him... at all.


I don't think we really can understand Him totally with our finite minds Ruby. Heck do you even understand your Mom and Dad or why your little brother does what he does? How can you expect to understand all the ways of God?

No, that's where FAITH comes into play. I like what Job said, "tho he slay me, I will trust him still." God has shown us time and time again thru our lives as well as in the lives of others that he is a God that can be trusted.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Faith is believing when you have no reason to.
Einstein said that he didn't like to think that God plays dice. I, personally, think that God does play dice. That's why bad things happen. I think God is in control of everything, but only when He wants to be.
Most of the time, though, He kind of lets us live out our lives, the way any good parent does, standing aside and letting us make our own mistakes and screw up as we will, but is there to guide us when we need Him. This way, He's able to see who keeps the faith and who doesn't. If He did everything for us and just sat there on His throne never letting anything bad happen, what would be the need for faith, which is what He asks of us?

I've been told I'm wrong in this line of reasoning, but then, every branch of every religion thinks they have it right and everyone else is wrong.
I try to apply the lessons I learn to my life, but it really is hard to do. The world is an evil, busy, distracting place. That's because Satan is here....he uses worldly distractions to keep us from understanding and using God's instructions. But we do have to live here.
I trust in God to show me what's right; that's His job. But, I have to be listening closely enough to hear Him. That's MY job, and it's hard, but I try.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have to be listening closely enough to hear Him. That's MY job, and it's hard, but I try.


i like your thinking.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
what would life be without faith i mean it would be scary, i know this by experiance, u fear god and dont like to think abou it because you disagree with all those weird christians, i never though that one day i would be one of those people. but as hard as it is to fully believe we still have to try and i remember what you told me once, that God wants yuor heart in the right place, no just the actions because thats what you should do, and that no one is perfect and we're going to sin but we need to try not to and we need to repent and pry that we can become a better person. I ask those questions sometime to and i think its good to really figure out why you should believe something and not just say you believe something because other people want you to. I guess we all really just want proof but what more proof do you need you are a horrible sinner we all are and we don't deserve anything we don't deserve proof we deserve condemnation, but we have so much to be thankful for, and god didnt just give his sons life for you because he was bored, which i know or think you must know. the other thing, i dont think anyone knows a "perfect christian", but you are a really good person and friend and i love you.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
And I love you, too