Who Are the Puppet masters Behind Today's Protests?

MM walks back and forth with his own perfectly spelled {in English of course} sign demanding that He is declared king of the United States.

I was going to blog on this, but instead will piggy back here.

There is a girl here locally that was protesting this weekend.  Her sign? "Am I a criminal?" 

She has a 4.13 GPA (I could never get more than a 4.0 when I was in school - I guess there is more than just wage inflation).  14th in her class.  She is an anchor baby.  Her parents are illegals, she was born here.

And she has a 4.13gpa?  No wonder our education system is in such trouble when they produce 'scholars' that are so ignorant!

It does not matter if there is 12 million or 12, there is no point in congress killing trees until they fix the problem with the borders.  They might as well just burn a forest for all the good they will do.

Nothing is impossible, but it takes a will.  And in response to your title question (which I asked a month ago), the answer is ANSWER.  Shock. Surprise. Gasp. enlightenment.

Until we get serious about our borders, this whole debate is stupid.

Reply By: Dr. GuyPosted: Monday, April 10, 2006I was going to blog on this, but instead will piggy back here.There is a girl here locally that was protesting this weekend. Her sign? "Am I a criminal?" She has a 4.13 GPA (I could never get more than a 4.0 when I was in school -

not unusual today doc, kelsey my friend micheles middle child keeps higher than 4.0 these days.

Initial reports here in Phoenix are that the turnout was about 75k. Based on the accuracy of prior crowd estimates here & the paper's tendency to inflate the numbers, it was probably closer to 50k. Of course, our local paper did everything possible to facilitate a maximal turnout.

If the crowd were as large as you claim I seriously doubt the puppeteering was the main cause of the turnout. Political parties can't get those kinds of numbers to their rallies, and they have the finest manipulators of human minds that money can buy.

All those (generally quite rare) people who believe strongly enough in their issue to take to the streets are on your soil. Do you really think you can force them to go back to Mexico?

Some sort of agreement is going to have to be reached with the 'new wave' of Americans. And closing the borders is not going to work. It's far too late for that.

If the crowd were as large as you claim I seriously doubt the puppeteering was the main cause of the turnout.

You really do not understand lemmings, do you?

You really do not understand lemmings, do you?

Unfortunately no. They're not a common animal where I live. I'm sure, however, that they are sufficiently fascinating to be worth understanding, but to be honest I couldn't be bothered.

What lemmings have to do with the sizes of protest crowds I have no idea. It's extremely rare for a protest to attract large numbers. Not many people are so idle that they can afford to take time off work or their families to go and walk around for a few hours shaking signs. If by calling them lemmings you consider other human beings mindless drones then I'm afraid I think a lot less of you as a result.

No large mass of people does something simply because they're told to do it. They might do it because they're threatened with physical force, economic deprivation or some other clear and pressing threat to their continued survival, but the words of politicians don't have that power. The marchers marched because they wanted to make their support for their cause known to those in power. The organisers tapped that dissent, they didn't create it.

I think the mindless part is the SUDDEN outrage. It's against the law to come here illegally... duh. It's even a felony when you are a repeat offender. Now, suddenly, people are outraged... just before the 2006 elections wherein the Dems desperately need the Latino vote.

It's working on both sides, as many more "moderate" Republicans also seem to be courting the vote, but it seems like the masses can only be fooled by one side. The outraged overlook the fact that Dems sit there and sanction the laws that create the situation to begin with.

It's working on both sides, as many more "moderate" Republicans also seem to be courting the vote, but it seems like the masses can only be fooled by one side. The outraged overlook the fact that Dems sit there and sanction the laws that create the situation to begin with.

I don't think they care really. Your voter turnout isn't very high - 50% or something, right? - so it's entirely possible that they see little real difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, or at least not enough to vote in support of one over the other. The Democrats may have succeeded in being written up in the media as the leaders of the dispossessed, but those dispossessed don't vote or aren't citizens, so I don't see it having a great deal of effect. The anti-war movement certainly didn't get out bed in time to vote in the last election, and they were supposed to be the majority.

I could be wrong though - I'm as foreign as the Mexicans, so your system is hazy-as to me. But I think the posturing of the Reps and Dems is just that - meaningless posturing that probably won't have much effect.

She has a 4.13 GPA (I could never get more than a 4.0 when I was in school - I guess there is more than just wage inflation).

Doc, it's easy. Take at least one AP/Honors class. In most school systems in VA, Honors/AP courses are rated on a 5.0 scale instead of a 4.0. So, you getting F in an AP course is functionally equivelant to getting a D in a regular class.

Reply By: DaiwaPosted: Monday, April 10, 2006Initial reports here in Phoenix are that the turnout was about 75k. Based on the accuracy of prior crowd estimates here & the paper's tendency to inflate the numbers, it was probably closer to 50k. Of course, our local paper did everything possible to facilitate a maximal turnout.

even at 50k that's a ton of illegals there, we missed the perfect chance to export them to their point of origin.

Reply By: cactoblastaPosted: Monday, April 10, 2006If the crowd were as large as you claim I seriously doubt the puppeteering was the main cause of the turnout. Political parties can't get those kinds of numbers to their rallies, and they have the finest manipulators of human minds that money can buy.

there is no doubt that people were there with nice new american flags tellking everyone to put away the other flags and wave the one handed to them.

All those (generally quite rare) people who believe strongly enough in their issue to take to the streets are on your soil. Do you really think you can force them to go back to Mexico?

yes we can force them back. we just have to have the will.

I don't know about the puppet master thing...yes, I am sure liberals are using this to their advantage. However, it's hard to believe hundreds of thousands of people marched merely because someone pulled their strings. This group is full of people with their own minds and opinions and stances...it can't all be the doing of some political machine.

As for the foreign country flag waving, many misinterpreted this as an Anti-American act when for the most part, it was really about pride for the country where they come from...that shouldn't be seen as anything "threatening"...Like you, I did notice the nice new American flags (along with other flags)...which I am sure many carried of their own will (and not because a political party told them to do so).

As for forcing "them" to go back...I don't know how realistic that is going to be.

I noticed on several of those nice, neat printed signs some interesting initials; AFL-CIO. ( I thought the unions were against imigration? hmmm, can't beat em, join em and organize em)

The spanish language radio and television broadcasters worked hard to make sure US Flags were EVERYWHERE, as well as white shirts "for peace".....Notice how everyone was wearing white?

String Pulling was evident for certain, but as to who or why, is yet to be seen...the union involvement certainly points to the Democrats, yet Telemundo and the like have historically been rather conservative in US politics.....

One can scream string pulling all they want to, but these people are not void of their own thoughts and opinions on this...they are not inferior to anyone else when it comes to making up their own minds about issues.

We've had several demonstrations around here that were NOT organized by some union or tv station or organization.

Link

Actually, it's worse than you think, Mod. Part of this movement is being supported and encouraged by World Can't Wait, the movement that tried to disrupt Bush's State of the Union speech (and nearly succeeded by getting Cindy Sheehan planted in the gallery). World Can't Wait has three sitting congresspersons as signatories to their movement and is a front for the Revolutionary Communist Party (this is not McCarthy-esque paranoia, on their own website they openly admit it).

Reply By: InBloomPosted: Tuesday, April 11, 2006I don't know about the puppet master thing...yes,

when people are told to wear a certain color t shirt and what flag to waave how can you claim it's noit staged?

Reply By: Gideon MacLeishPosted: Tuesday, April 11, 2006LinkActually, it's worse than you think, Mod. Part of this movement is being supported and encouraged by World Can't Wait, the movement that tried to disrupt Bush's State of the Union speech (and nearly succeeded by getting Cindy Sheehan planted in the gallery). World Can't Wait has three sitting congresspersons as signatories to their movement and is a front for the Revolutionary Communist Party (this is not McCarthy-esque paranoia, on their own website they openly admit it).

thanx for the more bad news gid .. I see what you are talking about.

Reply By: DynosoarPosted: Tuesday, April 11, 2006I noticed on several of those nice, neat printed signs some interesting initials; AFL-CIO. ( I thought the unions were against imigration? hmmm, can't beat em, join em and organize em)

I am sure the afl-cio is looking to orginize the illegals so they can collect more dues, so they can continue to support the left without the membership getting any say in who gets the money.

when people are told to wear a certain color t shirt and what flag to waave how can you claim it's noit staged?

Because the turn-out was so much bigger than you get at any purely staged event. Sure, they were given free stuff when they arrived for the protest, but are you serious saying that some evil organisation used its sinister influence to drag all of these people out of their homes and onto the streets in the first place?

That the protestors wouldn't have come if they didn't get free t-shirts and American flags? That they didn't care about the issue until a local union, tv channel or the communists told them to care?

21 by cactoblasta Tuesday, April 11, 2006

Because the turn-out was so much bigger than you get at any purely staged event. Sure, they were given free stuff when they arrived for the protest, but are you serious saying that some evil organisation used its sinister influence to drag all of these people out of their homes and onto the streets in the first place? That the protestors wouldn't have come if they didn't get free t-shirts and American flags? That they didn't care about the issue until a local union, tv channel or the communists told them to care?

Where did I say arcane or evil orgiazations?

if things were planed to that extent how can you deny there is a force BEHIND the scenes? how?

well you did say puppet masters. When people say that I naturally think 'conspiracy theory ahoy'. I've yet to hear a conspiracy theory which doesn't claim the organisers are evil.

if things were planed to that extent how can you deny there is a force BEHIND the scenes? how?

Because the planning is just tacked on. It's not important. Had the Republicans made the right moves they too could have tacked onto the illegal immigrant power base. The real issue is how government is going to deal with the fact that there are unknown millions of non-citizens inside the country's borders and no realistic way of getting rid of all of them. If the government doesn't do something now those non-citizens are going to be a serious force for change in 50 years time. Dispossessed peoples are dangerous, particularly when they're herded into second-class jobs and ghettos. It makes them susceptible to populist propaganda.

Oh, and there may well be a group of puppet masters pulling strings somewhere. But they would have little effect if it wasn't for the fact that so many people felt so strongly about the issue. All the puppet masters are doing is providing basic means of organisation. They're not creating the discontent.

Yeah, politicos see crowds that size & their eyes go all glassy with the prospect of potential votes. Numbers may have been closer to 100k, but they are always exagerated to a degree.

Many local, state & national politicians are trying to co-opt the "movement" & bend it to their own purposes. I suspect, actually, that the overwhelming majority of those at the rally were legal residents. Many of them probably have illegal relatives or friends here, however, and that is a big part of the problem. A sizable majority of the illegal population has been here long enough to be fully integrated into the Hispanic community, to have had children here who are now citizens.

I am of two minds on the problem - we shouldn't reward immigrants for succeeding in breaking our laws and sneaking in, but we shouldn't be breaking families up or deporting legal citizens (citizen dependants of illegals).

I don't see how the problem can ever be dealt with absent two pre-requisites:

1. We must change our citizenship rules to eliminate the incentive illegals have to deliver children on our soil - birthright citizenship should be limited to children of citizens & legal immigrants only.

2. We have to achieve effective control of our borders. Unlike cactoblasta, I believe that can be made to work, at least sufficiently.

I am not prepared to support the notion that the hordes can simply overrun us and demand citizenship. The Democrats are clearly salivating at that possibility, exposing themselves as vote-whores who don't think twice about ignoring our laws as long as doing so serves to return them to power. Some Republicans are doing the same, I admit, politics being the craven business that it is.

What lemmings have to do with the sizes of protest crowds I have no idea.

There is a field of study called mob mentality. In it, the positers state that an individual would never do X. It is against their code of ethics. However, when a mob gathers, their ethics are swept aside in a tide of emotions and all of a sudden what 1000 individuals would not do, a mob of 1000 will.

Thus Mobs are like lemmings. Following the flow even to their own destruction.