Religion? What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

http://www.daihoji.org
from JoeUser Forums
So, I am a religious person. I wonder. What does this mean, really? Does "religious" point to something inside or out? A belief system? God? Practice? What?

From a Zen Buddhist point of view, this Zen Buddhist, at any rate, its a no brainer. Religion is a silly thing. A bundle of beliefs propogated to make a person feel better. I don't give a wit about it. What I care about is what you are and what you are isn't what you think you are, but what you do.

Zen demands a look inside. It demands a correspondance between what you see on the inside ond what you manifest on the outside. This requires great practice. Long practice. A willingness to set aside, hell, throw out beliefs and cal them what they are: empty ideas. We do.

So, what do we do? We do good. We bring about good in the world. We stop doing bad things. We become compassion, generosity, wisdom. In each moment we are here to breathe, this is what we do. Nothing more, nothing less.

The rest of religion is for scarecrows.

Be well.
religion
4,194 views 20 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
A "religion" is nothing more or less than a loosely set group of people who share basic beliefs. Being "religious" merely means that a person subscribes to a set of beliefs that includes the spiritual aspects of our being.

"Religion" is like most things, it is neither good nor bad, it simply is. It is what the people involved do that decide whether their "religion" is something good in their life, or bad.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
The peace and tranquility you experience in your Zen, is no more or less the same as experienced by devout members of any religion.
However, your condesention toward other religions is rather un-zen like................
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
"However, your condesention toward other religions is rather un-zen like...."


Beat me to it. Kind of betrays an attitude you don't see often in true buddhists.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
any orginized worship of GOD with a set of rules that must be followed is to be scorned, being spiritual is good, being religious in not. IMO

Yep both baker and dyno beat me to it also, I cannot imagine dharma comming out her mouth like this.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
No matter what we think, or know, about religion, it keeps a lot of people on the straight and narrow. That keeps our spirit happy, our lives purer and our morals in check. The guiding force is not in question, or certain---it is the effect.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
your condesention toward other religions is rather un-zen like


At least he didn't single out one religion.
any orginized worship of GOD with a set of rules that must be followed is to be scorned, being spiritual is good, being religious in not. IMO


Yet you didn't seem to appreciate my comment that I think all organized religions should be abolished.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
any orginized worship of GOD with a set of rules that must be followed is to be scorned, being spiritual is good, being religious in not.


So what do we do with those of us that see the two words as synonyms? ;~D
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
#6 by Içonoçlast
Wednesday, March 22, 2006


any orginized worship of GOD with a set of rules that must be followed is to be scorned, being spiritual is good, being religious in not. IMO


Yet you didn't seem to appreciate my comment that I think all organized religions should be abolished.


I do not think I have any say in how anyone choses to worship, or not worship icon, not up to me to call for the total elimination of all religion.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
7 by ParaTed2k
Wednesday, March 22, 2006


any orginized worship of GOD with a set of rules that must be followed is to be scorned, being spiritual is good, being religious in not.


So what do we do with those of us that see the two words as synonyms? ;~D


why you go with it ted, of course.. I do not say how anyone may worship God, I only state my own preferences.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
You can be religious about anything. I know quite a few religious beer drinkers.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do not think I have any say in how anyone choses to worship, or not worship icon, not up to me to call for the total elimination of all religion.


Scorning them is just a step (or a few steps)from abolishing them.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
#11 by Içonoçlast
Wednesday, March 22, 2006


Scorning them is just a step (or a few steps)from abolishing them.


So if I chose to scorn something that means I must follow suit and totally want it abolished? quite a leap there icon.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
To be fair to Sodaiho I think that he would probably include his own 'religion' as a 'silly thing' and in a sense he would be right. The silliness is not necessarily in the religion itself, but religions are practiced by real flesh and blood people who can at times be vain, self important, self righteousness and at least partially deluded (all of us). Those of us who get really angry defending our various religions of peace and love have obviously at some stage momentarily disconnected from the core that really matters to us...

An important difference between eastern and western religions (but especially sharp between buddhism and christianity) is that the former emphasises the importance of what you do and the latter emphasises the importance of what you believe- while obviously each still contains both elements. I think this is a profound religious/cultural difference that is not easily bridged intellectually, but in
becom[ing] compassion, generosity, wisdom

we can at least connect at some human level where the theological arguments no longer matter.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
With palms together, Thank you each for your thoughtful comments. Some of you took my point, others did not, so it goes. Zen is about practice, not beliefs. In fact, beliefs get in the way of true practice. They are real hindrances to clear understanding. This is why "religion" is useless or worse, an roadblock. I am not being disrespectful here, or as one put it, condescending. Practice brings a person to knowing their true self, empty, without substance. Religion as a set of beliefs maintain a self, a relation on one thing to another. Practice dissolves this duality. When the duality dissolves, there is no self or other, no you, no me, no God: just *this*

Be well.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
it keeps a lot of people on the straight and narrow


Not from what I see. At my place of work, nearly ALL professed "very good" christians walked off at jobs, were consistently late, or fired due to various reasons including crime in background checks.

Character is what you do when nobody else is there.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Practice brings a person to knowing their true self, empty, without substance. Religion as a set of beliefs maintain a self, a relation on one thing to another."


I seem to recall something about practice also motivating one to look inward and reject values judgements that esteem one thing over another. This seems to be promoting Buddhism as something better than this or that, when, as you say, Buddhism seeks to be nothing. To me practicing Buddhism is to reject the kind of values comparisons you are making.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now you beat me Baker
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

I think that there are many paths to god - and that 'god' is sometimes personnified, sometimes not.  I believe that the Christian idea of God is the same as my idea of nirvana, which is also the same as the hindu idea that all souls return to Bramah.  It's all the same, it's just called by different names - and it's all good.  If a person finds peace and understanding in their religion or faith then that's wonderful and that's exactly where that person needs to be.  If not - well, perhaps they might want to try a different flavor, so to speak.

I think that a lot of the prostlesyzing (sp) that some christians do is simply out of concern for their fellow man.    I normally don't mind it, but there are time when anger comes and I say things that are not very nice.  I'm human, and I'm susceptible to human emotions like everyone else.

Namaste, my friends.

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
think that a lot of the prostlesyzing (sp) that some christians do is simply out of concern for their fellow man.


Well this would be me in a nutshell. I know many, many Christians that don't say a word. I was like that once.

I read a poem once that maybe I'll find and blog it, (got it somewhere) that deeply impacted me. I think it was written by a Football coach. One of his players died unexpectantly. This coach never told him about Christ. He never talked about being ready for the other side. And the guilt he felt was overwhelming. The poem goes something like this (off the top of my head)......"I walked with you by day, and you never showed me the way. I stand in judgment now and believe you are to blame somehow" It goes on to say..."and I called you friend."

I tell others about Christ (not about a religion or dogma)because I care about them not because I'm earning brownie points with God. I'm just doing what He said to do....go and tell.

A true friend doesn't keep secrets from those they care about.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Baker says: seem to recall something about practice also motivating one to look inward and reject values judgements that esteem one thing over another. This seems to be promoting Buddhism as something better than this or that, when, as you say, Buddhism seeks to be nothing. To me practicing Buddhism is to reject the kind of values comparisons you are making.

Hello. Thank you. There is a precept about not speaking of the faults of others. It is true and if I have done so, my humble apologies. I do not hold Zen to be above or below. It is just a practice, that is all. It is a practice that clarifies for the practitioner. I have faith in that practice, as some years of experience have informed me of its value for itself. Many faith traditions have similar practices as zazen, but they are not the same. When we speak of practice in a religious context how do we do it without discussing what is or is not so in this or that religious point of view? Comparative religion is a wonderful study. I encourage it.

Thank you for taking the time to post a comment. Be well.