One Reason Change Is Vital

a response to a reply of another post that i didn't want buried...

from JoeUser Forums
the following was a response to a poster (annon) who was parroting the Bush claims about Kerry's plan...

The "small business thing" is a good spin...guys who like own 15 car dealerships are considerd small business owners...the plan calls for a repeal of cuts for the richest 1 or 2 % amongst us to pay for some things that millions more need...like some basic health care coverage like every other civillized country in the world has.

and the whole idea that there was some "cash flow shortage" in the investor class, those 1-2% ers is a lie. Fact is that there was never any shortfall of cash in the investor class. all these tax cuts do is give them more to squirrel away or put into stocks and real estate.

Tax cuts to the middle class, however, do spur on real economic and job growth. That is what Kerry has proposed. Real relief for all Americans instead of the rich getting richer and the poor once again "getting the picture."

And productivity gains without job growth for over 3 solid years is just the working man doing more work for less pay and benefits. Again, the owners and the wealthy are the only real beneficiaries.

politics
12,060 views 29 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I hope that Kerry wins and can get it through congress. The job market isn't very good where we live.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Everybody who pays taxes got a tax break. Kerry is going to raise taxes on people who make over $200,000. That is small business owners. Clinton raised taxes on the rich and where is that health care that democrats promise every election? Democrats have used the healthcare issue in every election and they never do anything about it. Nothing John Kerry proposes is going to create a single job.

The tax cuts are the reason the economy is growing strong. Democrats can cry and whine all they want about the "evil rich", but the fact is the "tax cuts for the rich" is the reason the economy bounced back. There are plenty of jobs out there for people who want them. Jobs are being created every month and it's predicted to increase. It's not the governments responsibility to find a job for you, get up and find it yourself. There are plenty out there. Democrats continue to use the "you are too stupid, so let the government do it for you" line.

Thats all we need...higher taxes and a terrorist appeaser.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
deep...troll somewhere else please,,,it amazes me how the right just lies and lies....then they call themselves good christians...ugh.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Finally some breath of fresh air. Letting big business operate overseas in tax havens is something Kerry needs to focus on as well. The average joe is getting cheated in numerous ways these days.

The tax cuts are the reason the economy is growing strong. Democrats can cry and whine all they want about the "evil rich", but the fact is the "tax cuts for the rich" is the reason the economy bounced back. There are plenty of jobs out there for people who want them. Jobs are being created every month and it's predicted to increase. It's not the governments responsibility to find a job for you, get up and find it yourself. There are plenty out there. Democrats continue to use the "you are too stupid, so let the government do it for you" line.


There have been 2.1 million jobs lost since Bush became president with few being added. They promised 2.6 million jobs before the end of this year but even the White house is having trouble talking about it. Statistically it still looks grim. In actuality, 8.2 million people are unemployed. Bush has the worst employment record since Herbert Hoover. The economy is growing slowly but the job market is terrible. Outsourcing is another huge blow to white collar tech jobs. In some states like Winsconsin 84,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost during Bush's presidency. In Ohio at least 163,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost. I don't like whining either but they have a very good reason to do so.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
"deep...troll somewhere else please,,,it amazes me how the right just lies and lies....then they call themselves good christians...ugh."

There were no lies told. Also I never said I was a christian. That is the assumption you lefties make about everybody who corrects you. Thats the usual response from from a democrat. Cover you ears and pretend you can't hear the opposition. It's actually funny when a democrat accuses a Republican of lying, when the democrats whole campaign is based on lies and factless allegations.

"Finally some breath of fresh air. Letting big business operate overseas in tax havens is something Kerry needs to focus on as well. The average joe is getting cheated in numerous ways these days."

"Big Business" has operated like that for many years. It never became an "issue" until a Republican comes into office. Corporate corruption and things like that were going on right under the nose of the democratic administrtation, but just like terrorism it was ignored.

"here have been 2.1 million jobs lost since Bush became president with few being added. They promised 2.6 million jobs before the end of this year but even the White house is having trouble talking about it. Statistically it still looks grim. In actuality, 8.2 million people are unemployed. Bush has the worst employment record since Herbert Hoover."

Did you copy that directly from the DNC or Kerry website? Actually the statistics are looking great. The facts show differently than what democrats try to pass to the American public. Democrats are never really good at facts or statistics.

The economy is recovering at record paces. A great achievement since the economy started to weaken way before Bush took office. I know if you only read the myths the democratic party puts out there, you might believe the world is coming to an end, and the every person is unemployed, but it's just not true. It's just the usual democrats attempt at scaring people to get their votes. The unemployment rate is low. At least the media proclaimed it was low when the same rate was under clinton, now that the rate is under a Republican president it's terribly high. There's that liberal media again.

America see's how the democrats use fear to try and win an election. It's not going to work this time.





Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
That is small business owners


It all depends on how large you classify small business owners. I know Veeps of major corporations that make less than 200k a year.

Cheers
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Were Kerry to concentrate on outsourcing and overseas businesses having tax havens, he'd have to deal with his own wife's 57 overseas operations. Bush would have to deal with his own veep, up for indictment for bribery by France for illegal business dealings in Africa. Sorry, Republicrats won't be doing anything but maintaining the status quo, ratcheting down American wages to the slave level of the rest of the earth as the agenda dictates.

Fools will mouth that Bush is a fiscal Conservative and Kerry is a big spending liberal, the same levers will get pulled and the charade will go on. I won't be blamed though, because I will not enable them by voting for either Republicrat, locally or nationally. (This is why Democrats can't address the health-care I note, as it is a Republican controlled Senate.)
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Did you copy that directly from the DNC or Kerry website? Actually the statistics are looking great. The facts show differently than what democrats try to pass to the American public. Democrats are never really good at facts or statistics.


Actually the U.S. Department of Labor is where I read this info. Is that a left wing website deep? Also I found it odd that you referred to lies when talking about democrats. I merely stated facts.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
"It all depends on how large you classify small business owners. I know Veeps of major corporations that make less than 200k a year."

And I know people who don't own businesses and are not "veeps" that make over $200,000 a year. The fact is.....Kerry is going to raise taxes.

"Republicrats won't be doing anything but maintaining the status quo, ratcheting down American wages to the slave level of the rest of the earth as the agenda dictates"

Slave level? You guys just can't get enough rhetoric posted. That is just too stupid even to address.

"Actually the U.S. Department of Labor is where I read this info"

I can show data that shows over 2.4 million job created. Bush is in no way responsible for any job loss just like clinton was not responsible for any so-called increase in jobs. But let Kerry keep focusing of the low unemployment rate, he's just making it better for us. When I was referring to "lies". It's the usual lies that come from the DNC, like the Bush was awol lie, and all the others that come from the DNC.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
that is true jeb,,,the "small business owner" has become a misleading cliche used in bush stump speeches. like i said, a guy can own 15 car dealerships, be a multi-millionaire and bush is coddling him like he is running a general store. bush wants us to twist "small business owners" and lump them down with a group more properly referred to as "cottage industries." cottage industries are those little mom and pop type operations and little businesses run out of the home.

think about it,,,when bush says "small business owners" who do you think of? mom and pop running their country store or the multimillionaire with the chain of dealerships, or resturaunts or gas stations, etc, etc,,,?

Kerry's repealing of the taxes for the richest 2% of us is a far cry from punishing "mom and pop" making 30 grand a year in their country store. this repeal is about income level, not job descriptions.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
wah,,,thank you for your thoughts...you like to think of others as "fools"...one expression comes to mind..."a fool thinks he knows everything, a wise man realizes he has a lot to learn."

think about it.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
deep,,,your lies are falling on deaf ears,,,but i will be more than happy to increase my own points by replying to you, lol...why don't you show your face instead of being annonymous?

annonymous users hold as much weight with me as annonymous sources do.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
No problem SConn, deep hasn't really elaborated much on what he has said.

I can show data that shows over 2.4 million job created

Really? I would like to see that data. All I have seen is the fact the White House promised 2.6 million jobs and them later sidestepping these remarks. Big businesses have reported great highs, businesses like Walmart and G.M., but what about the average worker who is currently unemployed through no fault of their own? I just hope it improves. I can't vouch for the severity that wahkonta has forecasted, but I will not dismiss facts.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
no he hasn't psychx,,,and those statistics he threw out there are about as valid as bigfoot....

the worst part about the bad job numbers is that they don't accurately reflcet the whole picture. aside from the ones the goverment counts as unemployed,,,they also throw out the stat of "people who have stopped looking" which is very misleading to me. those are the people who have run out of unemployment insurance. those folks are probably trying harder to gain employment than those still on the dole...

i must admit, even with some study in the fields related, the way the jobless numbers are put together these days confuses me,,,it is hard to get a real grip on how bad it is...but when i go out and talk with people, unless they are making a quarter million a year, or hope to after they vote republican, it is obvious that things are worse than even the dismal numbers from the goverment would suggest.

one thing is clear,,,the attempt by the administration to reclassify fast food and kitchen jobs as "manufacturing " jobs shows that things are so bad that they need to maniulate the facts once again to show the picture they want.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Big businesses have reported great highs, businesses like Walmart and G.M., but what about the average worker who is currently unemployed through no fault of their own? I just hope it improves. I can't vouch for the severity that wahkonta has forecasted, but I will not dismiss facts.

The facts show that the job market is increasing. Jobs are the last part of an economic recovery. LIke I said, unemployment is low, there are over 138 million people employed in this country, so pushing this single issue is not going to win the White House.

,it is hard to get a real grip on how bad it is...but when i go out and talk with people, unless they are making a quarter million a year, or hope to after they vote republican, it is obvious that things are worse than even the dismal numbers from the goverment would suggest.

It's so funny how you assume every Republican is rich or wants to be. I went to the rally in Orlando yesterday and let me tell you, there were very few "evil rich" there. I talk to people everyday. Every person I talk to and meet are employed and most wil tell you they are better of now than ever. The economy is growing at records paces, but democrats seems to ignore that. You democrats paint the worst picture and that is the real lie that goes on. It's the persons responsibility to go out and find a job for themselves, not rely on John Kerry to do it for them.

You can keep whining about the tax cuts, but Kerry still can't explain how raising taxes will create jobs. He hasn't even proposed how he will "create" jobs. Maybe if they move some of those heinz factories back to America he can get a few there.

Kerry's repealing of the taxes for the richest 2% of us is a far cry from punishing "mom and pop" making 30 grand a year in their country store. this repeal is about income level, not job descriptions.

It's about income level? Actually it's class warfare, thats the real name for it. But that is the democratic way. Raise taxes and claim it will help the "little people".




Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

If Kerry wins, expect Joeuser.com to have to charge money for some of the more basic features.  I'm not sure how you guys think the economy works, but I can tell you how it works here -- the tax cuts provided enough capital to hire additional people at Stardock. Taking that tax cut away would effectively require us to find around $40k more in revenue to make up the short-fall.

Some of you really need to learn about the tax system before making such...well illinformed comments. Most companies in the United States today are set up as LLCs or S-corporations. Whch means their revenue shows up as income for the princple owner. Most businesses do make more than $200,000 per year.  In fact, most of the people who woud be harmed by Kerry's proposed tax increase are small business owners. So they will either have to lay people off or find a way to make up the money they're going to lose in taxes.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good point brad. So would it be true that if you could not find the 40k in revenue, you might have to lay people off?
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Vote for Bush or i'll charge money for this site? Cmon! i know this site is right leaning but that is really cheap...oops,,,i'm sorry,,,i don't want to insult Brad and have him pull more "god mode" RPG tactics on me when he is responding to my posts.