Hey devs. Are you doing anything about AI tech trading?

Why would something you are allowed to do be turned off for the AI?

Its an option in Civ 4 to turn off all tech trading in the game so it should apply to humans too I imagine. Makes things interesting sometimes. I can't see how it would hurt to have it in.

Why would something you are allowed to do be turned off for the AI?

In Civ4, when you turn it off, tech trading is disabled for EVERYONE. So you would not be cutting off an option for the AIs that would still be available to the human player - it would not allow the human player to tech trade either.

Yes totally agreed an option which disable tech trading and is applied to everyone is a must considering also how tech trading is managed.Anyway tech trading should be also fixed, i'm obliged to play ideological war scenario just to not play a game with an insane tech trading

+1 here for nerfing COmputer Tech Trading... totally ruined Civ 3 for me.. and made me hesitant about civ 4...

Comp AI should trade techs when it makes sense... I should have as good a chance to get the tech as the next AI player... makes me do 10x the work and then get my butt handed to me...

MOIISKA the AI sees you and the other AIs as teh same. It gives no preference to the other AIs. Maybe the other AIs are just spending more time talking to each other/.

I like tech trading the way it is. I focus mainly on researching diplomacy boosting stuff and just get all my other techs from the AI. At a cheap price of course because of my massive diplomacy.

So if Im able to use this strategy than I think the AI should be able to aswell.

I spent some hours this weekend looking into this.

I don't have the ability to put in a "no tech trading" feature (i.e. I write the AI, but I'll bring it up).

But I can have the AI be more picky about what it tends to trade.

So here's what I've done:

1) I have it be more picky about what it's willing to trade than it was before.

2) I have it less inclined to trade military technologies back and forth.

It doesn't sound like much but I think people will be pleased with the results.

As Shalkto points out, the AI doesn't treat the player any differentlyt than each other. The AI also doesn't trade techs with anyone they have poor relations with.

Yes please!

It's not much fun when all the AIs have more or less the same tech. All their ships are the same!

I think the 'problem' people are having is that they only hit the diplomacy screen every x number of turns, whereas it's no problem for every AI to examine every other player (human + AI) every single turn and re-evaluate whether it wants to make an offer for a trade.

That way if A is at war with C, B and C trade techs, then A and B trade techs, each for fair prices. Now imagine you are C and you start wondering how A got your technology...

I'm -guessing- the difficulty already controls the extent to which the AI exploits the diplomacy avenue?

Yeah Brad, the AI doesn't trade with it's poor relations folks.. but currently I'm seeing 6 degrees of seperation. Cause right now, in a relatively recently started game, the AI has yet once again replicated the tech trading initiative program. (And tends to exclude me from that circle.)

All it takes is for one race to be completely neutral, (Say like the Terrans) and anyone can trade with them. Then in the process they all start replicating the same tech. With very few minor differences. The differences being more a case of the diplomatic skill of the race.

It's still very annoying.

As Shalkto points out, the AI doesn't treat the player any differentlyt than each other. The AI also doesn't trade techs with anyone they have poor relations with.

Yes, Brad, but they just go and trade it to someone they have normal relations with, who in turn trades to the other race that they DO have good relations with. As other peoplre have mentioned, the net result is that when one person knows a tech, everyone else knows it too within a few turns, and everyone has the same list.


As it is right now, when you decide you want to trade or sell a tech, you may as well trade it at the same time to every major/minor race in the game and see what you can get from it, as everyone will have it anyways in short order...you may as well be the one to profit.


I wouldnt want to see inter-AI tech trading disabled, as it forces you to make hard choices about giving tech away. You have to be prepared to see every civ in the game use it against you when you trade it to one. I would , however, like to see more variations in the techs the various races have at their disposal.

Isn't it weird that you can know what techs other Civilizations have when you don't have any espianoge going? The whole diplo screen is like that. "Oh, you got another planet I haven't found yet, but I guess I'll look for it now that you told me." Maybe trading should be based on known quantities, e.g. planets you see that they have and techs you know they have, either through spies or what you see their ships use in battle. (Also, should we know the exact weapons compliment for ship types that we have not yet fought? etc..)

Love the game

The problem as been mentioned in many other threads stems in part from the silly offerings from AI offering powerfull techs for any old junk they dont have. And you right they dont recognize the difference between AI and player ...thats part of the problem.

Gigantic galaxy with 9 AI (and a bunch of minors).
Each turn one or more AI players fire off this random tech give away .... that means the human player has a 1 in 10 chance of being on the recieving end. That a 90% chance an AI player will recieve this 'free' tech upgrade. Oh but ALL the AI players will be doing this tech giveaway and each time there is a 90% chance it will be going to another AI. Oh they may not give it to other AI they are at war with but the ones they do give it to might turn around and give it to them anyway.

Give it 50 turns and your pretty much guaranteed that every game is going to be identical, with all the AI sharing the same techs running the same type of ships etc

It is a pretty much a non-issue when running small galaxies with only 3 AI of differing 'moral' viewpoints but it breaks down badly the bigger it gets.

Get rid of the tech give aways (to human and AI) and you fix the worst of it right there. There are already built in weightings that the AI uses to judge if something is a good deal ...when then totaly bypass it and make all that pointless?

Myros

The problem as been mentioned in many other threads stems in part from the silly offerings from AI offering powerfull techs for any old junk they dont have. And you right they dont recognize the difference between AI and player ...thats part of the problem.

I have never seen this. If anything, its the opposite...they are always offering me their worthless low end techs like "New propulsion techniques" for my high end "Democracy" and "Xeno-ethics" techs.

So here's what I've done: 1) I have it be more picky about what it's willing to trade than it was before. 2) I have it less inclined to trade military technologies back and forth. It doesn't sound like much but I think people will be pleased with the results.

I hope it helps. I was playing a couple of games with all AIs set to intelligent. With just a moderate diplomatic edge (+10% innate + Populists and a diplomatic tech to myself) I just seemed able to bootstrap my way into a strong tech lead. I think I only traded 5 of my own techs. After that, my treasury was high enough that I could buy any tech I wanted and sell it to enough appropriate targets to get the tech, make a huge profit *and* keep all the techs I researched myself as exclusive. Just seemed a little too powerful. AIs should value a tech based at least partly on how many already have it.

I'm also wondering if it takes into account the value of bcs at different stages in the game. Tech trading allowed me to pretty much drain the treasury of many of the competing players, allowing me crazy spending at a stage in the game where credits are often hard to come by.

Just a beginner $.02 here... but it seems to me that part of the problem is that the AI is min/maxing trading opportunities on *every single turn*.

I don't want to have to check trade opportunites and try to beat the AI on that basis, every turn. That's too much micromanagement (for me, anyway).

Maybe if the AI didn't min/max the trades every turn, and only did it on a monthly basis or something, that might help?