Gideon MacLeish Gideon MacLeish

Tired of Being Ripped Apart

Tired of Being Ripped Apart

Yes, this is related to my last article.

When the latest incident here at JoeUser occured, I feel that there were a number of people who wrongly perceived my fence sitting as being selfishly motivated. It was not selfishly motivated, but in fact, came about because I am simply sick and tired of being ripped apart.

It's not just here at JU; that's only a part of it. It's everywhere. As I mentioned in one of the previous articles on the subject, the minister of the church we have been attending and my fire chief have a long standing feud, and I am caught in the middle between a man I consider my friend and someone upon whom my loyalty is directly tied to my performance as a firefighter and soon to be first responder. This feud goes back to before I even heard of the existence of our small town and doesn't concern me; yet, there is a constant push from both sides for me to take sides on the issue.

Add to that the fact that our small town is literally torn apart by the factions from the two predominant churches, and, in fact, a split between members of the larger church. Each absolutely detests anything presented by another faction, and the arguments spill over into council decisions, fire meetings, Lions club meetings, and virtually every situation where two or more of our citizens have contact. As a result, we have no marshall, have been deprived of several grants that could have improved the standard of life and fiscal position of our town, and many families avoid the conflict in the church altogether by refusing to attend the churches in town.

Then there is my work as an advocate. There are two factions there, and they have no quarter, no room for compromise. Each is convinced of the rightness of his idea to the exclusion of others, and as a result, every question is met with a debate on the merits of each's position.

The common denominator of all of these conflicts is that I see validity to virtually all of the arguments presented. I believe there's room for compromise and not an "all or nothing" position. On this site, for instance, I was accused of cheerleading Brad, when, in fact, my comments were empathy for the exhaustion he expressed, something I have known quite a lot of, and for the work he has done to build his company. They were not an expression of solidarity for his decisions as an administrator.

My loyalty to Brad is based on the fact that I am appreciative for what he has done both in the creation of JoeUser and in improving my abilities as a writer. All I have to do is go back to the articles I wrote in my first few months at JU and the articles I've written in the past few weeks, and I see a substantial difference. There is an enhanced professionalism, I am more assertive in backing up my positions, and, as a result, I've become better educated as to the facts. I'm a better researcher, a more competent and confident person because of that, and I have no doubt this will have a serious positive effect on my personal life.

But that loyalty doesn't mean I don't have loyalty to Sabrina and Simon. In fact, since the idea was blown, I have no problem in stating that the reason I tried to sit on the fence is because I hoped it would blow over and Simon would eventually be reinstated. I didn't feel that adding gasoline to the fire would help that cause very much. Now, of course, there will be people who don't believe this at all, but frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn!

I am tired of being torn apart, tired of being forced to choose sides in everything. It's petty and juvenile, and I'd hope as adults we are above it. But if we're not, so be it. Just be careful, though, you may not like the side I choose.

3,907 views 40 replies
Reply #26 Top

But I don't think men and women always agree on what constitutes friendship.

My husband wouldn't EVER offer an opinion about a situation involving two people he likes. EVER.

I think you may be right.  However only having ever inhabited the male body, that is the only perspective I can give.

Reply #27 Top
No, it's not just "imperfection". Here in town, I have a choice between churches that believe it's a mortal sin if I play "amazing grace" on my guitar, or one where I will have to face false allegations of abuse and neglect after every week if I DARE show my face there. If I go into town, I have a choice between those two sorts of churches, or churches whose doctrine directly opposes mine. What kind of choice is that? As I have said before, I have never been the subject of pure, true hatred until recently, and that hatred has come EXCLUSIVELY from people who label themselves "Christians". I've spent 35 3/4 years being "tolerant" of others' views, and it's about time a few people are tolerant of MINE.


Sounds like you don't have much of a choice here Gid. You are saying you have a minister in a feud? Not good. We are to do all things that glorify God and this doesn't sound good to be coming from a minister. He's supposed to be Christ to us and acting on his behalf. Peter, near the end of his life, pleaded with the Pastors to be good examples to those under them in 2 Pet 5.

Also you have every right to worship God with your guiter. There are many musical instruments in scripture. I think of David worshipping God with his whole heart dancing in the street with the music playing all around him. His wife looked at him with contempt. God was not pleased with her.

We are to go to church for two purposes. One to worship and glorify God. The other to build, encourage and edify the body. If that's not happening....Satan most likely has that church. It's time to get out. The leadership at the top makes such a huge difference in how the body worships and interacts with each other, and it sounds like this is not a good place for you spiritually to grow.

I have been for the last seven years in a loving church doing just that, glorifying God and helping each other both physically and spiritually. Three years ago we had 75 people, today we are pushing 300 in a small town where church attendance is normally low. God is blessing us. There is so much work to do. I really believe Satan is distracting many from the job we are called to do; reaching, teaching, serving and sending. We need to be aware and not let him put obstacles in our way.

Prayer changes things
Reply #28 Top
A true friend will respect your views and agree to disagree. I doubt Mary Matlin and James Carville make such demands upon each other. I doubt their marriage could survive if it did.


The above is true. However, Mary and James are exact opposites, split down the middle on fundamental issues; a choice that isn't common among friends or found in successful marriages making them a poor example. Opposites statistically end in divorce, as opposite friends eventually go their separate ways because there’s very little glue present to hold them together over time.

But if the dispute is between 2 of your friends, who do you step up for?

I would measure the subject matter, the pertinence of me taking a position then react accordingly. I find it odd to choose friends that are so different core value wise, that you're challenged by their conflict and have to choose sides.

Reply #29 Top

I would measure the subject matter, the pertinence of me taking a position then react accordingly. I find it odd to choose friends that are so different core value wise, that you're challenged by their conflict and have to choose sides.

It is not always a core value thing.  I have been in the situation, and while I commisurated with each, I would not take a side.  After it was resovled, I was still friends with both, as they were with each other.

Reply #30 Top
It is not always a core value thing


I disagree.... When two people carry difference of opinion to the extent where the "friendship" is at stake, the subject matter has a core value or moral relationship. Over the years, I’ve choose my friends because their values, morals and lifestyles happened to be similar to mine, mind you not the same. And, there’s one other component that plays, balanced interpersonal skills.

Over 35 years, I've had one serious difference of opinion with a friend, which lasted a few months. Our mutual friends didn’t take sides, nor were they expected to. However, they worried because we're both strong men. Fortunately, they made it a point to get the both of us to recognize how much history we had and would be lost by maintaining the ill will. Consequently, the value of friendship and all it's made up of won out. We talked, and instantly put the difference of opinion behind us, and that was many years ago.

In retrospect, it was easy to see the cost of carrying our difference of opinion to far. The healing couldn't have happened if our interpersonal skills were unbalanced and his Jewish values or my Catholic values were distinctly different. Say, he was an atheist or agnostic, a strong person that had weak social skills, or maybe a loner type that didn’t value true long term friendship over being right. Without similar core values almost any difference of opinion or just being right, could easily be the downfall of friendship.
Reply #31 Top

I disagree.... When two people carry difference of opinion to the extent where the "friendship" is at stake, the subject matter has a core value or moral relationship.

HOw about a breakup of a love relationship?

Reply #32 Top
HOw about a breakup of a love relationship?


Assuming, (hate that word), the love relationship was established on like values, morals and desires the same applies.

From time to time, a friend or two still socializes with old flings from years past, and I have no problem with that. My wife has no problem with her X-husbands wife socializing with her sorority sisters that live across the street from her X.

When I would break up with a woman, it was due to our values being out of alignment. A good example was this gal that was constantly frustrated with my friends, and one being a woman. It didn’t matter to her if they were a valued part of my life. She felt as though she was competing for attention, which was ridiculous. She was also saying she didn’t value friends, as I do. She wanted to be the one and only. Come to find out she had no long term friends. She maintained any relationships, not impressive, which lead me to believe she didn’t work at things, and was selfish, qualities I didn’t like.

The funny thing was friends mentioned she wasn’t a keeper for the same reasons, before I knew it was time to end the relationship.

I can't answer in the case of a divorce. Reason being, except for a few situations, it's not an option for me, nor is it for the woman I married.
Reply #33 Top

Assuming, (hate that word), the love relationship was established on like values, morals and desires the same applies.

Love rarely follows logic.

Reply #34 Top
Love rarely follows logic.

I've heard that line to many times in my adult life. I’ve never used that word "logic" in conjunction with finding a mate or establishing friendships, I would use love and “compatibility”.

Don't take this personal because it's not meant towards you. But, those I’ve encountered that have used that line, appear to struggle with a sense of balance in their life, often loosing sight of their values and morals, communicate poorly with loved ones, and discourage healthy interpersonal skills. The entertaining part is when they make the proclamation, romance and logic don’t go together, they really should say, no thought, anything goes based on momentary needs or passion.

In the name of love, they pay no heed to long term relationship compatibilities and associated emotional needs for happiness. To often, they face emotionally difficult issues with obstinate behavior wrapped in antipathy, which leads to more conflict, selfishness, some complacency ending in divorce and or lost friendships, never allowing a foot to touch the ground of reality, for fear.

Relationships, and more importantly life long marriages require work and for that work to be successful, it requires like minds, values and moral beliefs to over come all of life’s obstacles combined with the differences that man and woman conjures up naturally due to their Venus Mars issues. Even though making a career choice resembles marriage, failed marriages do considerably more emotional harm then failed jobs.

Venture out with romance throwing compatibility (your word “logic”) into the wind, failed friendships, breakups or divorce court isn’t far behind.
Reply #35 Top

Don't take this personal because it's not meant towards you.

I wont.  For 2 reasons.  It was not me (altho I am guilty as sin in that regard) and because We were all young once.  So your logical analysis of the situation, while it can be nodded and agreed upon by aged wisened people, does not hold for homornal pre-30 people.

Reply #36 Top
Actually, she called me out BY NAME on her other blog site because she felt I was "kissing Brad's ass". So, yes, she would and she did.


I got flamed too. I'm cruel, apparently. Because I thought that Simon's banishment was deserved and wrote an article about the golden rule of blogging at JU.

Brad made a comment elsewhere that I thought summed up the situation quite well. He said that LW didn't want loyalty, she wanted obiedience. Until last week, I'd have laughed and told him he was wrong.

Now, though....I'm not so sure.
Reply #37 Top
does not hold for homornal pre-30 people


You're right, it doesn't hold with many. But, with those of us guided by values and moral behavior it holds because our hormones are not steering. I waited till I was 48yrs old to find the right woman to fall in love with.

Those you mention have no patience and seek immediate gratification letting their hormones steer their lives, and pay for it later. What’s socially sad is those same pre-pubesent-30 people will behave in the same manner in their post 30's, which is why the divorce rate is so high.

Only one of friend is remarried, while the rest have been married once since their thirties and in some cases since their mid-twenties, in one their HS sweethearts and we’re all older then 40. Which examples what I said earlier about choosing friends with like values.

I use logical analysis when reviewing budgets and P&L statements, not love or woman. My values, morals and marital views were teaching originating in catholic school as a kid. All that was required was to use them as guides without question, and with hope the woman of my dreams would appear someday, well she did.

Nobody can choose love rationally or logically. Love is pure emotion; compatibility on the other hand requires the ability for one to see if those qualities are present and use simple judgment there after.
Reply #38 Top

My values, morals and marital views were teaching originating in catholic school as a kid.

Ouch!  Are you my mother?

Reply #39 Top
ugly thought.... wait a minute.... let me check something to make sure. Nope, just my own inner parent doing what he does best.
Reply #40 Top
ugly thought.... wait a minute.... let me check something to make sure. Nope, just my own inner parent doing what he does best.