Good...Neutral..Evil..it doesnt make sense.

from GalCiv2 Forums
I dont WANT to be evil..but I also dont want penalties to my planets.

I am having a hard time finding any reason to be good. I have not fully delved into all of the bonuses available to each alignment and seen how they effect gameplay..but from what I can tell by reading it, it seems like good civs have a SLIGHT bonus in their abilities, over evil civs. And good civs get the defense bonuses, which is fine except that defense is nowhere near as important as offense.

Why is it that every scenario that comes up has a negative impact for taking the good route, and a positive impact for taking the evil route? I mean... doing the right thing CAN be profitable SOMETIMES. And why do some scenarios still give a negative bonus for going the neutral route? shouldnt neutrality, by definition, have no positive or negative impacts?

here is what id like to see.

1. Neutrality has no positive or negative effects. At least that way if you are trying to be good, but you really cant afford a handicap.. you can at least go the neutral route sometimes to avoid taking a huge setback.

2. When it comes time to choose your alignment.. an evil civ can choose to be evil or neutral.. and a good civ can choose to be good or neutral. Evil cannot become good, good cannot become evil.

3. There should be fewer bonuses for becoming evil. After all..you got your bonuses by choosing the evil option when a scenario came up. There should be MORE bonuses for being good... in order to make up for the handicaps you had to accept by taking the good choice.


I can understand the logic behind the current setup... i mean its easier to be evil than it is to be good.. but from a gameplay perspective, the only reason to be good is because you really dont want to be labeled "evil".. and that just isnt enough of a reason imo.

Perhaps there is more to this that I am just not seeing?
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
While I agree with some of your comments, I think things are balanced so far. I personnaly don't like some of the events, but what the hell, not all things that happen are supposed to please us.

The good/evil choices are there since galciv1, so I guess I got used to it. The idea behind bonus or penalties seems very starfleet like to me: the good path is always a costly one (or to qupote some episode, "we don't put civilians at risk, sometimes that means we lose the battle or die, but we do not put civilians at risk"). It is a matter of principle, and it is very easy to stick to principles when nothing is at stake, now if you risk a -10 empire wide morale penalty, that's gotta make you think, "Am I really Good or just do I like to think of myself as good?".
On the contrary I think often times the penalty for good path (when it is something youhave to pay) is not high enough (there are some with very few credits, that I don't even think about).

As for going from good to bad, there are so many examples in our own history... Specially, sometimes it is so easy.

Besides your desire to be good or evil, there are other effects: it can help your relations with some races, etc. Don't know very well, have not explored completelly, but I can tell you in all the games I've played since galciv1 I've never gone evil in any of them. I just cannot bring myself to choose "allright kill them all (-500m people)" or "throw them all in jail" or "torture them till they confess something, whatever", but than can be because personal history (my father was arrested and turtured during brazilian dictatorship, which I might add was supported by the USA --military help, intelligence assistance, etc -- to the incredible extent that there were torture conferences given by US personel in Brazil (I invite any of you to watch the Costa Gravas film State of Siege, about that). So once again the line between good and bad is a changing one. I don't think USA are Evil, their intent is rather good, but should I really say what I think about what was donne in South America? So I play good.

My answer to you would be try roleplaying it a little more, and keeping 500mi people alive or prevent turture should be an easier choice to make
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
To true....
Its more a mather of what u like...its spices...gives flavor...
its not somthing u should hang uer self up on...
i am a trur nutral so i kinda allways end up there.in the middel that way u can make the occasionel bad choice when u really need it and then in moral questions go goood....
BUT again its flavor..
u dont win only on chooseing your alignment
Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Depend of your setting as well, if the influencial civs are goods might be a good think to align with good. And being evil with good neighbour can change a lot of things.
But when you says a civ leaning to good can't be choose evil, it's not true, you just need a lot more money to do it. My last game I was toward good (even if I made a few evil choice, I guess it depends how evil is what you are about to do) and it cost me nothing to align with good, 2500bc to align with neutral and 10000bc to align with evil. So the further away you are from the alignement the more it costs.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
no..but I might win cause I have the extra 20% bonus on a planet that I got for killing babies

It may just be flavor..but some of the bonuses you get for making the evil choice are very real from a gameplay perspective.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Aren't there more good civ's than bad? Drengin/Yor are the only evils right? I'm evil, and allied with both, yet at really bad odds with the rest of the galaxy, and I even tried to trade a bunch with the Torian's to stop them warring me, but they still did.

If I'm right, the good trading with good bonus would be even more beneficial.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
For the sake of discussion..

Good
+Citizens are more loyal and less likely to defect if their colonies are under an opponent's influence
+The five most populous planets have no maintenance costs for their initial Colony
+Trade income with other good civilizatoins is increased by 25%
+Gain a Diplomatic Ability bonus when dealing with other good civilizations
+Unique technologies include Superior Defense
+The "Templf of Righteousness" Galactic Achievement is only available to good civiliztoins.

Empathical Tactical Center
-Galactic Achievement
boosts the defense of any of your military ships by 20%

Hall of Empathy
-Galactic Achievement
-doubles the odds that alien civilizations will surrender to you when they decide to surrender

Temple of Righteousness
-Galactic Achievement
-diverts a percentage of all other good races' background trade revenue to your civilization.



How does "gain a diplomatic ability bonus when dealing with other good civilizations" work? Wouldn't the other side receive the very same bonus?
Asfor Hall of Empathy ("doubles the odds that alien civilizations will surrender to you when they decide to surrender"), if they already decided to surrender... why do I need double the odds


Neutral
+Citizens ar emore content and an approval bonus applies
+Gain a discount when you directly purchase a ship instead of build it
+Upgradeable tiles are instantly made avilable
+A bonus is applied to ground invasions against all non-neutral alignemtns
+Unique technologies include additional weapons and defensively technologies
+The "Temple of Neutrality" Galactic Achievement is only avilable to neutral civilizations.

Neutral Shipping
+Trade +10
+Trade Routes +3
Temple of Neutrality
-diverts a percentage of all other neutral races' background tourism revenue to your civilization.

Neutrality Learning Center not implemented?


Evil
+Starbase upgrade fees are waived
+Propagana (typo in game) Center projects make planets less susceptible to rebelling
+Secret Police projects improve a colony's approval rating
+Other civilization's trade routes pay 1bc per turn they spend in an evil civilization's sphere of influence
+Unique technologies include Superior Weapons
+The "Templf of Evil" Galactic Achievements is only available to evil civilizations

Secret Police Center
-Super Project
-boost to the base approval rating of whatever planet it's built upon by 20%

Artificial Slave Center
-Super Project
-This Super Project will give your military production a big boost. The cost? Just a wafer-thin slice of your soul.
(didn't say how much it boosted)

Mind Control Center
-Galactic Avehiement
-ensures that alien worlds that are ripe for defection defect nearly instantly
-economics bonus 100% (that's what it said..)

No Mercy Invasion Center
-Galactic Achievement
-This Galactic Achievement eliminates the cost of special invasion tactics

Temple of Evil
-Galactic Achievement
-This Galactic Achievement diverts a percentage of all other evil races' background trade revenue to your civilization.

psionic beam
psionic shredder
psionic missile
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
How does "gain a diplomatic ability bonus when dealing with other good civilizations" work? Wouldn't the other side receive the very same bonus?
Asfor Hall of Empathy ("doubles the odds that alien civilizations will surrender to you when they decide to surrender"), if they already decided to surrender... why do I need double the odds


"Gain a diplomatic bonus when dealing with other good civilizations"

Means other civilizations with a good alignment will look more favorably upon you, and treat you better, or more fairly, than evil civilations, i.e. be more open to to trades neutral or even advantageous for you.


"Doubles the odds that alien civilizations will surrender to you when they decide to surrender"

Does not mean "doubles the odds that alien civilizations will surrender." It doubles the odds they will surrender to YOU. When a civilization surrenders, they can give all their planets to whomever they wish, by surrendering to them. This doubles the odds they will surrender to you rather than somebody else.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
that double the odds thing may be worth going good...just for that.

having a race surrender to you can be a HUGE advantage.
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
"Asfor Hall of Empathy ("doubles the odds that alien civilizations will surrender to you when they decide to surrender"), if they already decided to surrender... why do I need double the odds"

Well, they might not surrender to YOU. I was crushing the Terrans. When I was preparing to take Earth. they surrendered their planet to the Torians instead of allowing me to take it.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
ah that makes a lot more sense, thanks for the clarification.

Considering that you can't change alignment after you have already selected your alignment and that you can't get persuade other civilizations to select your alignment or change the one they have..
and that a lot of benefit seems to only apply to civilizations with the same alignment as you ..
it feels less like a good vs evil thing but just faction A vs faction B vs faction C..

You might play evil just because it suits your gaming style more, not because of the short term benefit like in galciv1.
This make it a bit unfair since you would be receiving bonus for being evil at the moral decisions where the good is penalized.

Unless.. like the first poster said.. there is something that we aren't seeing.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Didn't read all the replies, so this might be redundant...

Being evil has great bonuses, but if you are evil your only 'friends' will be the Drengin and Yor (and maybe a couple others). They'll only be your 'friends' until you are the next weakest target.

Being good gets you solid allies like the Altarans and Torians. The Arcaens generally make good allies if you are a good player, although they can break the alliance as a matter of convenience.

I find that playing the middle road works the best for me.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, playing evil may give you alot of soldier bonuses and alot of planet bonuses, but at least once, sometimes twice I have seen evil empires (with poor morale) pretty much go away on me due to that planet wide fundamentalist movement, not in the current release mind you but while playing in GC1 and beta. Frankly the trade vote by the UP when your evil can be a pain in the rear tissue also.

W/R
Suralle

Being good isn't all that its cracked up to be either, especially when your getting invaded by an evil civ with all their soldier bonuses and game invaded bonuses.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
When you choose your alignment, it has to be part of an overall strategy.

If you choose good, you're really aiming for a diplomatic victory, and you have to work hard at cultivating alliances. These alliances save you; they help prevent war by deterring evil and neutral civs from attacking in the first place. If they do attack though, you have to call in your friends and make sure they are strong enough and willing to defend your worlds. Those tourism dollars help make up for the negatives.

If you choose neutral, you're focusing on trade. This gives you a lot of money, and you can buy your way to victory. You won't have many real friends, but the prospect of losing lucrative trade helps prevent war. You have to be prepared to defend your trade routes. But again, you can buy improvements and ships. This is a good basis for the tech victory. Just stay neutral, defend your routes, and fund your research.

If you choose evil, you're focusing on domination. Trade and influence are weak, but your individual planets are stronger. You won't have any real friends, but you can bully the weak into giving you stuff. The real key on this path is having a good military strategy. Pick your targets carefully, try to diplomatically isolate them, and grind them down. Lather, rinse, repeat. At some point though, you will have a crusade against you. Just hope that you'll be strong enough when that time comes.

The evil path comes more easily to most people, since it gives you DIRECT control, and puts the player on the offense. Many players find conquest more fun. You don't have to manage fickle neighbors as closely.

But for those who enjoy the challenge (or are starry eyed liberals), the good path is viable too. Neutral can be fun, but it's more of a waiting game; stay neutral, defend your turf, and race to the tech victory.

When you start your game, though, you should already have your victory condition in mind, and choose your bonuses and alignment from there. If you don't have focus, you'll fail.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
My opinions:

Good: The bonuses aren't as good as the others. The temple is really the only good thing they get. Having better relations with more races is probably the best part of this alignment.

Evil: Still not great. You get all the best event picks, and you get free starbase upgrades, which oddly enough can make for a nasty Evil culture push

Neutral: Pick all the evil choices on the events and then pay your pay to neutral at the low low price of 2500BC. Combine that with the higher morale and instant availability of terraformable tiles (even if you haven't researched the techs!), and this is easily my favorite alignment.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
Free starbase upgrades & invasion tactics... who cares if most of the galaxy doesn't like you, they're not going to be around long enough for it to matter

If you choose evil, you're focusing on domination. Trade and influence are weak


You are kidding right? 1bc per turn for every freighter in your influence and the ability to build loads of maxxed out influence starbases cheaply

Yes - the Fundamentalists still exist, and they can be a real pain on arrival. Just need to squash them quick.